X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Use of COA

  1. #1
    Join Date
    12th April 10
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    36
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Use of COA

    A question for the experts on heraldry. A COA is approved and registered with The Lord Lyon. I believe it is illegal for someone in Scotland, and presumably the UK, to use the said COA for commercial, or otherwise, purposes. For example a Clan Chiefs COA on a tee shirt. Is it illegal to do the same in another jurisdiction, the USA or Canada say. I was asked this question by someone who saw a COA as described at a Highland Games in Canada. The COA is registered in Scotland but not in Canada. I know COA registered in Canada are protected by the Trade Marks Act of Canada but I don't know if this extends to COA (Trade Marks) registered elsewhere and used without authority outside the jurisdiction of the registrar (the Lord Lyon, as an example). Can anyone on the forum speak to this with some authority, knowledge, or experience?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    17th December 07
    Location
    Staunton, Va
    Posts
    4,948
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    The Coat of Arms and Unenforceable Regulations

    Quote Originally Posted by Donsel View Post
    A question for the experts on heraldry. A COA is approved and registered with The Lord Lyon. I believe it is illegal for someone in Scotland, and presumably the UK, to use the said COA for commercial, or otherwise, purposes. For example a Clan Chiefs COA on a tee shirt. Is it illegal to do the same in another jurisdiction, the USA or Canada say. I was asked this question by someone who saw a COA as described at a Highland Games in Canada. The COA is registered in Scotland but not in Canada. I know COA registered in Canada are protected by the Trade Marks Act of Canada but I don't know if this extends to COA (Trade Marks) registered elsewhere and used without authority outside the jurisdiction of the registrar (the Lord Lyon, as an example). Can anyone on the forum speak to this with some authority, knowledge, or experience?
    Sadly, the only legal protection that an armiger has from the usurpation of his arms by another person is generally limited to the country where those arms were first granted. And even that is not necessarily "iron clad". Additional protection may be available by copyright/trademark, but this is a costly (and tedious) business that, frankly, really doesn't provide much, if anything, in the way of real protection.

    In reality, most chiefs recognize the fact that sooner or later their arms may turn up on a tee-shirt or ball cap, shrug, and just get on with their life. In theory a chief could sue to stop the unwarranted use of his arms (and some have, but with varying degrees of success) but at the end of the day they realize that they'd be lucky to recover their court costs. The other side of the coin is that these tee-shirts, etc., promote the chief's clan and from that standpoint do provide a sort of service to the chief so, on balance, it's not really such a bad thing.
    [SIZE=1]and at EH6 7HW[/SIZE]

  3. #3
    Mike_Oettle's Avatar
    Mike_Oettle is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
    Join Date
    9th June 10
    Location
    Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape, South Africa
    Posts
    3,121
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    While MoR has spelt out the position from a practical point of view, it remains extremely bad form to make improper use of someone else’s coat of arms.
    Printing the chief’s crest on a T-shirt is entirely acceptable, provided the people who wear it are actually clan members, since the display of the crest indicates submission to the chief.
    There are ways of displaying a coat of arms that do not suggest that you own it or have some right to use it (wearing any but your own on a T-shirt or any other garment is wrong, unless you are a herald wearing a tabard), but to display someone else’s arms as if they are yours is a direct affront to the owner.
    Regards,
    Mike
    The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life.
    [Proverbs 14:27]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    6th July 08
    Location
    Montgomery Village, Maryland, near Washington, District of Columbia
    Posts
    1,842
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why in the name of Heaven would someone WANT to wear someone else's arms? One of the purposes of arms is as identification. Wearing arms not your own is like wearing a namebadge with someone else's name on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Oettle View Post
    While MoR has spelt out the position from a practical point of view, it remains extremely bad form to make improper use of someone else’s coat of arms.
    Printing the chief’s crest on a T-shirt is entirely acceptable, provided the people who wear it are actually clan members, since the display of the crest indicates submission to the chief.
    There are ways of displaying a coat of arms that do not suggest that you own it or have some right to use it (wearing any but your own on a T-shirt or any other garment is wrong, unless you are a herald wearing a tabard), but to display someone else’s arms as if they are yours is a direct affront to the owner.
    Regards,
    Mike
    Geoff Withnell

    "My comrades, they did never yield, for courage knows no bounds."
    No longer subject to reveille US Marine.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    17th December 07
    Location
    Staunton, Va
    Posts
    4,948
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Withnell View Post
    Why in the name of Heaven would someone WANT to wear someone else's arms? One of the purposes of arms is as identification. Wearing arms not your own is like wearing a namebadge with someone else's name on it.
    True enough, Geoff, but probably less than 1/10th of 1% of the world's population knows that. The rest, naively, just assume that the tee-shirt affords them some sort of "brand" recognition in a sadly all-too- homogenized world.
    [SIZE=1]and at EH6 7HW[/SIZE]

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0