Celtic History??

[Burly Brute]

I feel cheated by American schools (bear in mind I have gone to public, private, and charter) because I have never been taught anything much about celtic history. I posted a thing about this on facebook a few months ago, and had one viable response. I noticed even in community colleges/universities its very limited. I live in Arizona and aside from the Irish cultural center and some societies, its seems very limited out here. Why are schools so afraid of a rich and involved history? I am getting a degree in Biblical Studies and learning about the ancient middle eastern nations is pretty interesting, I forget not everyone was living in these areas during that period. Where is it!!!? TELL ME!! WHERE!!? lol

Your thoughts?

-Z

[macwilkin]

I feel cheated by American schools (bear in mind I have gone to public, private, and charter) because I have never been taught anything much about celtic history. I posted a thing about this on facebook a few months ago, and had one viable response. I noticed even in community colleges/universities its very limited. I live in Arizona and aside from the Irish cultural center and some societies, its seems very limited out here. Why are schools so afraid of a rich and involved history? I am getting a degree in Biblical Studies and learning about the ancient middle eastern nations is pretty interesting, I forget not everyone was living in these areas during that period. Where is it!!!? TELL ME!! WHERE!!? lol

Your thoughts?

-Z

Because even American history doesn't get the attention it deserves -- as a per-course history instructor at a local community college, we barely can cover basic American history. A four-year university is more likely to have a course on Irish or Scottish history, but even then, there's no guarantee. My alma mater didn't offer a basic Canadian history course.

Personally, while the ancient Celts are more "romantic", I think more people relate to the Irish & Scottish immigrants and their contribution to the US, Canada, Australia, etc. I've been preaching for sometime now that Scottish organizations shouldn't wait for a "Braveheart" to make all things Scottish "cool"; instead we should be looking for the local contributions of Scottish immigrants to our communities.

For starters -- did you know that an Irish soldier-of-fortune, Hugh Oconor (originally O'Connor) was the first Commander of the Presidio at Tucson? Or that a half-Scot, half-Indian scout named Archie McIntosh helped General Crook bring in Geronimo? Or that Arizona's most famous son, William O. "Buckey" O'Neill, was the son of an Irish immigrant?

My dad is from Prescott, btw, and I spent a good deal of my childhood in North PHX.

T.

[Burly Brute]

Because even American history doesn't get the attention it deserves -- as a per-course history instructor at a local community college, we barely can cover basic American history. A four-year university is more likely to have a course on Irish or Scottish history, but even then, there's no guarantee. My alma mater didn't offer a basic Canadian history course.

Personally, while the ancient Celts are more "romantic", I think more people relate to the Irish & Scottish immigrants and their contribution to the US, Canada, Australia, etc. I've been preaching for sometime now that Scottish organizations shouldn't wait for a "Braveheart" to make all things Scottish "cool"; instead we should be looking for the local contributions of Scottish immigrants to our communities.

For starters -- did you know that an Irish soldier-of-fortune, Hugh Oconor (originally O'Connor) was the first Commander of the Presidio at Tucson? Or that a half-Scot, half-Indian scout named Archie McIntosh helped General Crook bring in Geronimo? Or that Arizona's most famous son, William O. "Buckey" O'Neill, was the son of an Irish immigrant?

My dad is from Prescott, btw, and I spent a good deal of my childhood in North PHX.

T.

This is my point! Granted, in my youth I may not have meditated on these realities as much as I would like to now, but the more involved I get in the history the more I see how much the roots really spread out and span the globe. Personally, music is what really shows me connection. When I listen to aussie folk, irish folk, and bluegrass, to me it seems there are huge connection.

Don't get me started on celtic immigrants to America! What a completely neglected part of history that has become! Not to mention the hardships and assimilating that was involved that hardly anyone considers! I think next to slavery and our treatment of native americans, as a society, the celtic immigrants rank pretty high as a group of neglected and mistreated peoples.

I dont want this to be a "bash" anything thread, but it's a serious issue! I hope what I said made sense, I really dig what you offered especially in regards to American connections of today. Why do we negate such a rich history? I think American's have a serious identity crisis afoot, although thats a whole other discussion! lol

[Burly Brute]

Because even American history doesn't get the attention it deserves -- as a per-course history instructor at a local community college, we barely can cover basic American history. A four-year university is more likely to have a course on Irish or Scottish history, but even then, there's no guarantee. My alma mater didn't offer a basic Canadian history course.

Personally, while the ancient Celts are more "romantic", I think more people relate to the Irish & Scottish immigrants and their contribution to the US, Canada, Australia, etc. I've been preaching for sometime now that Scottish organizations shouldn't wait for a "Braveheart" to make all things Scottish "cool"; instead we should be looking for the local contributions of Scottish immigrants to our communities.

For starters -- did you know that an Irish soldier-of-fortune, Hugh Oconor (originally O'Connor) was the first Commander of the Presidio at Tucson? Or that a half-Scot, half-Indian scout named Archie McIntosh helped General Crook bring in Geronimo? Or that Arizona's most famous son, William O. "Buckey" O'Neill, was the son of an Irish immigrant?

My dad is from Prescott, btw, and I spent a good deal of my childhood in North PHX.

T.

Also, I am from Tucson and thanks for that little golden nugget of history! Didn't know that!

[macwilkin]

This is my point! Granted, in my youth I may not have meditated on these realities as much as I would like to now, but the more involved I get in the history the more I see how much the roots really spread out and span the globe. Personally, music is what really shows me connection. When I listen to aussie folk, irish folk, and bluegrass, to me it seems there are huge connection.

Don't get me started on celtic immigrants to America! What a completely neglected part of history that has become! Not to mention the hardships and assimilating that was involved that hardly anyone considers! I think next to slavery and our treatment of native americans, as a society, the celtic immigrants rank pretty high as a group of neglected and mistreated peoples.

I dont want this to be a "bash" anything thread, but it's a serious issue! I hope what I said made sense, I really dig what you offered especially in regards to American connections of today. Why do we negate such a rich history? I think American's have a serious identity crisis afoot, although thats a whole other discussion! lol

Point well taken, but I don't think you're seeing my point: when you get behind the podium and deal with the bureaucracy that is the modern American educational system, you'll see that history in general gets the short end of the stick. I try to work in the contributions of a number of groups to American history when I teach, but I have to teach the big picture as well.

T.

[Burly Brute]

Point well taken, but I don't think you're seeing my point: when you get behind the podium and deal with the bureaucracy that is the modern American educational system, you'll see that history in general gets the short end of the stick. I try to work in the contributions of a number of groups to American history when I teach, but I have to teach the big picture as well.

T.

I see what your saying better now, it's too bad administrations don't see things more that way. I think history is the foundation, or should be, of all acadamia. All paths study are moot if void of history. I am almost done with a course in English Literature and have come to realize what a worth of knowledge was invested in these works and how we should use history as a tool to teach, not relegate it to a few hours a week. I guess any education system has its ills, but come! Come on! haha.

I have a lot of rants and very little sensible answer lol that is my problem. Either way, celtic history is awesome! I recently picked up a book on Ireland's historical cultures and customs and am enjoying it thoroughly, my only trouble is making connections of these ancient towns, etc, which I can't even pronounce...another reason I like learning this stuff in a classroom setting.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

The only chair of Celtic Studies in continental Europe, that I am aware of, was established in 1927 at Utrecht University in the Netherlands. Celtic studies are also taught at the University of Ottawa, as well as Glasgow and Edinburgh universities, and several other schools.

If often comes as a shock to modern day "Celts" to learn that the ancient Celts migrated westward from central Asia Minor (in what is now modern Turkey), and that they flourished for several centuries all across central Europe before reaching the British Isles.

Anyhow, once you have completed your present studies, you might consider applying for a Rhodes scholarship to study the Celts at a European university.

[Burly Brute]

The only chair of Celtic Studies in continental Europe, that I am aware of, was established in 1927 at Utrecht University in the Netherlands. Celtic studies are also taught at the University of Ottawa, as well as Glasgow and Edinburgh universities, and several other schools.

If often comes as a shock to modern day "Celts" to learn that the ancient Celts migrated westward from central Asia Minor (in what is now modern Turkey), and that they flourished for several centuries all across central Europe before reaching the British Isles.

Anyhow, once you have completed your present studies, you might consider applying for a Rhodes scholarship to study the Celts at a European university.

What a dream! Only problem is that I am soon to be wed and have a nice job here in the southwest. Maybe an online degree? Although... I learn so much better in a classroom setting. I guess I can just youtube history programs haha.

[tripleblessed]

No need to feel cheated. Education is a gift you give yourself, and it has little to do with schools. Most of what we learn is seriously flawed. Learning to sort the wheat from the chaff is a tough gig. Most curriculum plans are laid out with other guidelines than truth and fact. Bias blinds and warps the best intentions, so little of what is gleaned in school is untarnished. I had professors tell me "You're right and we both know it, but I can't say that in class". A friend was a quarter or two from a divinity degree when he was told he couldn't tell church history as it happened because "the congregation isn't ready to know that, just tell them what they've always heard". Being told the truth wasn't welcome sent him to art school. Jesus said the truth will set you free, Jack said you can't handle the truth. one has to find the courage to walk that path one's own self, but marriage, job, kids, get in the way, and where one's bread is buttered emotionally will hide the truth.

It's a grand journey. Enjoy the ride.

[Woot22]

Not sure if this book was suggested on another post or not but you may be interested in Senator Jim Webb's book "Born Fighting; How The Scots-Irish Shaped America". Might have the kind of history lesson you are looking for. Here is a link for it on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076...=ATVPDKIKX0DER