Jacobite Living History - My Impression

[CollinMacD]

Greetings all,

I am not new with living history programs, I did American Civil War for over 15 years, and understand the difference between historic interpretation, and Hollywood. My family were Jacobites, under MacDonald Clanranald, and were involved with the Highland Clearances, thus ended up in Nova Scotia, matter of fact my Grandmother's family was a Chisholm and they were Jacobites.

So here is my first swipe at the impression. Please be merciful, but open to comments. My ancestor was Captain Samuel MacDonald, from Inverness/Knoydart, who was in the 1745 Uprising.

[Orvis]

Greetings all,

I am not new with living history programs, I did American Civil War for over 15 years, and understand the difference between historic interpretation, and Hollywood. My family were Jacobites, under MacDonald Clanranald, and were involved with the Highland Clearances, thus ended up in Nova Scotia, matter of fact my Grandmother's family was a Chisholm and they were Jacobites.

So here is my first swipe at the impression. Please be merciful, but open to comments. My ancestor was Captain Samuel MacDonald, from Inverness/Knoydart, who was in the 1745 Uprising.

Hi - Just a few comments - I'm in a Jacobite living history group in Alexandria, VA. If you haven't already done so, check out a thread by Woodsheal (another Jacobite reenactor) in the Historic Dress forum from 2009, in which he provides photos of early/mid-18th c. Highland dress. Your bonnet looks good, as do your hose, shoes and waistcoat (you'll want to replace the diamond buttons - they are 19th c./current). I can't see the cut of your jacket, but the "wings" at the shoulders should go. The sword looks good - brass-hilted broadswords were actually more expensive than iron-hilted swords in the 18th c. The red/white diced hose are good, but you'll eventually want to make/obtain a set of hose sewn and fitted from tartan cloth - knitted hose didn't begin to be used until the early 19th c. You'll also eventually want to replace the dirk, which is a 19th c. style that continues in use. I can see the butt of your pistol sticking out from under your jacket, and it is a correct 18th c. style. As to your kilt, you obviously used your modern MacDonald kilt in ancient colors. One thing you may want to look into is getting a belted plaid/philabeg in a non-recognizable tartan - twilled tartan. With all your expensive weapons and clothing, I'd take you for a gentleman of the clan, so more red in your tartans would be appropriate. Check Peter MacDonald's papers for more information on 18th c. tartan. If you opt for a philabeg, avoid the tailored look with pressed/sewn pleats. The folds in my philabeg were just gathered and then secured with a single row of stitching where my belt goes - the top flops over the belt. Your sporran looks like an 18th c. style - I use a similar one.

I was impressed by your ancestral background - lots of Jacobites! If you plan to be in Alexandria on 3rd Dec for the Alexandria Scottish Christmas Walk, my Jacobite group (Stewarts of Appin Clan Regiment) will be participating. If you can find them before they step off, I'm sure they'll be happy to answer any clothing or history questions you might have.

Gerry

[Terry Searl]

Greetings all,

I am not new with living history programs, I did American Civil War for over 15 years, and understand the difference between historic interpretation, and Hollywood. My family were Jacobites, under MacDonald Clanranald, and were involved with the Highland Clearances, thus ended up in Nova Scotia, matter of fact my Grandmother's family was a Chisholm and they were Jacobites.

So here is my first swipe at the impression. Please be merciful, but open to comments. My ancestor was Captain Samuel MacDonald, from Inverness/Knoydart, who was in the 1745 Uprising.

I'm no expert and offer no opinion of the authenticity of your dress but I do applaud your enthusiasm

[figheadair]

Greetings. I echo Gerry's comments.

When the time comes to change your tartan then Clan Donald are fortunate in having a number of tartans that can be dated back to the time of the '45. You'll find details of some of these on my research page - http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/research.htm and whilst some of these tartans are woven commercially they are nearly, if not always, wrong from an historical perspective; wrong polours/shades or incorrect setting. Look to at my paper on the Two Plaids from Nova Scotia, good MacDonald/Knoydart connections there too.

[CollinMacD]

Hi - Just a few comments - I'm in a Jacobite living history group in Alexandria, VA. If you haven't already done so, check out a thread by Woodsheal (another Jacobite reenactor) in the Historic Dress forum from 2009, in which he provides photos of early/mid-18th c. Highland dress. Your bonnet looks good, as do your hose, shoes and waistcoat (you'll want to replace the diamond buttons - they are 19th c./current). I can't see the cut of your jacket, but the "wings" at the shoulders should go. The sword looks good - brass-hilted broadswords were actually more expensive than iron-hilted swords in the 18th c. The red/white diced hose are good, but you'll eventually want to make/obtain a set of hose sewn and fitted from tartan cloth - knitted hose didn't begin to be used until the early 19th c. You'll also eventually want to replace the dirk, which is a 19th c. style that continues in use. I can see the butt of your pistol sticking out from under your jacket, and it is a correct 18th c. style. As to your kilt, you obviously used your modern MacDonald kilt in ancient colors. One thing you may want to look into is getting a belted plaid/philabeg in a non-recognizable tartan - twilled tartan. With all your expensive weapons and clothing, I'd take you for a gentleman of the clan, so more red in your tartans would be appropriate. Check Peter MacDonald's papers for more information on 18th c. tartan. If you opt for a philabeg, avoid the tailored look with pressed/sewn pleats. The folds in my philabeg were just gathered and then secured with a single row of stitching where my belt goes - the top flops over the belt. Your sporran looks like an 18th c. style - I use a similar one.

I was impressed by your ancestral background - lots of Jacobites! If you plan to be in Alexandria on 3rd Dec for the Alexandria Scottish Christmas Walk, my Jacobite group (Stewarts of Appin Clan Regiment) will be participating. If you can find them before they step off, I'm sure they'll be happy to answer any clothing or history questions you might have.

Gerry

Thank you I find all of this quite interesting. I knew the kilt is wrong, but I am using this to honor my ancestors, for now. This is my first attempt and like any other living history, you learn and fine tune as you go along. I did Civil War for a long time, and had the impression down to thread counts on the uniform. So for now, until I can afford to purchase the correct items this will due. I would like to learn more about your group, so if you could IM or email me it would be appreciated. I will be at the parade, and try to locate you. I will be at the morning St. Andrews Society breakfast, and then will march with the Donald clan.

I just received yesterday the Targe, and was handmade and direct copy of the MacDonald Clanranald pattern found in a museum in Scotland. To answer your question, yes I am trying to do the gentleman impression. My ancestor was Samuel MacDonald, who was a Captain in the MacDonald of Clanranald Regiment. He did own and have a brass sword, it was a German blade, and assembled in France. It was in my Family until World War II, when my Grandfather (we thing he was drunk at the time), turned it in when they were collecting metal for the war. My Aunts us to do the sword dance with this sword and remember it well.

I would like to know where I could get the hose, I do not know who your "Sutlers" are. The Jacket I would like to replace too, as I agree it has a more modern cut than I see on illustrations, but for know its my first attend, and from photos I have seen of other re-enactors, well I think it will pass muster, but does need to be replaced to be more authentic.

Again I hope to hear from you. Thanks for you input, well received.

Regards,
Collin

[Luke MacGillie]

Good Day, welcome to the fold, or should we say pleat? :-)

I applaud your work, will perhaps overwhelm you with comments and info, and probably me and someone else will end up in a discussion about something I have said, all it good fun!

Is that a M1717 you have there, lots of those came from France to the Jacobite cause. Im not certain, but am of a mind that they came with the requisite gear, consisting of a buff leather waistbelt, French infantry hanger, bayonet and cartridge box, so if your going to use one of those you probably should also have the rest of the issued gear. A place in Canada called "At the Royal Sword" could get you all you need, including the proper French musket sling and all that.

Your coat and waistcoat yes they need some work, perhaps just retailoring, not a complete new start.

Your waistbelt and swordbelt buckles are the bane of my existance, Ive not seen anything like them on any surviving artifact, nor recovered archaeologically from either Europe or North America. Sometime in the 60's someone made one to use at Friendship and they took off to the point people really do think they are correct. Frontier & Scottish reenactors use a crapload of those buckles and they turn me into a shrieking harpy! That's the bad news, the worse news is there is not much in the way of proper Scottish swordbelt buckles short of one off custom made ones for the 18th Century reenactor, military or civilian. Best I can say is get a Double D buckle from someplace like Jarnigan(yes he has an 18th Century page now) or Perhaps Military Warehouse, if you know him from your ACW days. Im not sure if Najecki will have one that wide.

On to the swordbelt, the lack of proper buckles, is surpassed by the lack of proper swordbelts hobby wide. I know of no surviving examples from the period. I do have access to an early 19th century one, made of elephant hide actually, and how it drapes on the body, and the angle it holds the sword is night and day from any reenactor made item. To make it properly you need a whole hide, laying the pieces out a certain way on the hide according to the grain, to make one wastes alot of material, meaning very high price. I dont have a good one yet myself. On your belt, the part that has the buckle is too long, it puts the buckle too high up on your chest, and then there is not enough comming thru the buckle for the normal metal keeper, and then heart decoration that is fond on most depections of Scotts in the early to mid 18th Century. There is another place up in Canada, Coughlin & Upton that has a buckle, keeper and heart set, used by the Fraternal Org 78th Highlanders, its kinda like what is shown in a couple of late 1750's portraits, but its not the most common buckle to say the least.

Other has commented on your kilt and tartan, Im not going to replicate comments.

Hose: You need to get some cut cloth bag hose, the knitted hose that the majority of the hobby wear, like what you have are just not right. There is not currently a good source for the red and white diced cloth hose, but you could try and find some Woolrich or Pendelton Rob Roy check material and make some, if you dont go with actual tartan hose.

Hope I didnt floor you with a wall of Text,

Luke

[Luke MacGillie]

Round 2:

Your dirk, its at best a 19th Century Regimental pipers dirk, and not a good copy to be honest. Sell it to someone in a pipe band and call it good:

You might want to get a thin, less than one inch wide belt, that you wear over the same shoulder as your swordbelt and suspend your pistol from that. That is the most common way that one pistol was worn. When multiple pistols were carried, then you see one on the strap and one on the belt. Highland Regiments in the later part of the 18th Century always were issued both pistols and straps as they were called.

Sporran: As a higher ranking gentleman you will probably want to get a cantled sporran. The cantles copied from an surviving example in the Black Watch musuem that the regiment wore for the Queen's Corination are quite pricy, but I saw over on Facebook that somone has had copies made someplace, Im guessing Pakistan and selling for about 70 bucks. The bags on all the surviving sporrans I have in my files are all rough side out. I would hazzard that they are made from leather that was tanned in a manner that gives you rough on both sides. It would be more fitting for someone of your social status to have a cantled sporran.

[CollinMacD]

Luke,

Thank you for all your input, like all the other posts, very interesting, and yes I have discovered getting the correct gear is extremely hard. My ancestor was a Captain in the Jacobite, so I would like to portray him, but obviously I have no visuals, so I need to go by the illustrations that I see in books and research, and most of that is very hard to distinguish what is what. Doing the ACW I had authentic uniforms that I could reference, and getting the wool was not difficult as (Charlie Childs in Paris, OH) could have wool woven to thread specifications, and made into broadcloth, (steamed and pressed wool that made it more of a cloth) than the brushed modern wool.

I got some good information and will improve with time just putting this impression together cost a lot. So, as I progress with this I will post, but for now this will due, and I promise I will improve.

So much to thing about, and getting who makes what is the most important thing, Who does authentic kilts and where can I get good plaids from the period? All of this I still am looking for. Peter MacDonald provided some good information about the history of plaids, but where do I get them at a reasonable price, and what is the weight 16oz, will 13oz work. so much to learn.

Thanks for all your input, that is how I learn...Collin

[Luke MacGillie]

We have our own version of Charlie or Ben T, and the others in this period, not producing tartan at present , but doing broadcloths, kersey, superfine and bays and all the other required wools, Kochan Phillips Historic Textiles is top dog, others like woolrich also have appropriate wools. The coat in my Avatar is made from Family Herloom Weavers cloth.

My belted plaid is made from 3 yards of Lochannon 18 oz double wide tartan. Will have another perhaps soon, if some of my friends can get it together and our order put in that will allow me to actually replicate a proper belted plaid.

[Mathew MacKillop]

While I have zero information to add to this, I did want to say a few things:

First, I think the costume looks great, even with the inaccuracies others have noted. I would never have noticed, myself, but the kit looks awesome nonetheless. I also commend the OP for wanting to get everything just right.

Second, it never ceases to amaze me how much people on this forum know about the kilt, its' history, and the history of things related to it.

Third, and finally, I am regularly impressed with the ability of most members here to take criticism constructively. We are spoiled here on X-Marks with the quality of our fellow Humans.