dirks with non-ceremonial uniforms

[OC Richard]

It strikes me as odd sometimes how soldiers (especially pipers) will be seen wearing dirks with decidedly non-ceremonial uniforms.

For example soldiers of The Black Watch off to fight the Boer War. They're wearing the dirk belt, crossbelt, and dirk from their Full Dress uniform



This persisted even with the prosaic Battle Dress uniforms of WWII. Here nothing about these pipers' kits is ceremonial (khaki hose and puttees, no sporrans) yet the dirks remain, in 1939



Here are pipers on active campaign, Italy 1944, wearing dirks



This is perhaps the most odd, the wearing of a dirk with khaki shorts, The Black Watch in Palestine 1938

[Geoff Withnell]

Nothing odd about it at all. Having a large knife/short sword to hand can be very useful in the field. I wore a 14" bowie knife in the field in Viet Nam and found quite useful - without ever using it as a weapon, I may add. I imagine a functional dirk, such as I wear on formal military occasions would work just as well. And of course it will still perform its ancient function of dealing with the enemy if things get up close and personal.

[Tarheel]

I notice there are no sgians in any of the photos. The extra cutlery included in the dirks may account for this. I want to comment on the flashes, spats and puttees, but I'll wait for another thread to breach that area.
Good photos to speculate on.

[Bruce Scott]

When it came to field kit during WWI, the Field Service Manual 1914 applied. See the remarks at Section B, 'Arms' in the table here, which states "Pipers wear dirks": http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/bl...ers-load-1914/

I haven't yet found anything similar for later periods.

[The Q]

The pipers on parade can quite easily be explained, when rehearsing for a big formal parade, it is quite common to be " fully armed" but not in parade dress . Had there been normal soldiers in the picture they would have been carrying rifles with bayonets. I suspect that the fairly obviously staged italian photograph may also be the case. As for the last photo in Palestine I would expect the RSM / CO wanted their men more identifiable than the "Saxon" regiments.

[Jock Scot]

With reference to the last picture, we must not loose sight that they are soldiers first and musicians second. Who knows the circumstance of the picture, but a rifle and bayonet would not be a strange instrument to a piper, who may have been playing the pipes just beforehand?

[Luke MacGillie]

I dont know if this will add or muddy the water, but VolSgt Thompson of the 78th speaks of having to borrow a dirk from a fellow NCO to go on Duty, and then eventually had a local blacksmith make him a blade and he then carved the handle. This was 1757-1760 era. Perhaps its an on duty symbol?


BTW, here are a couple shots of dirks that belonged to Thompson, dont know if these were ones he had while in the 78th or not.

[blackwatch70]

This is perhaps the most odd, the wearing of a dirk with khaki shorts, The Black Watch in Palestine 1938

I see 4 chevrons on his short sleeve - probably , Pipe-Major? His dirk is obvious not a simple pipers dirk.
Who was a P/M of 2nd BW that time?

[OC Richard]

Good eye! Yes that's probably the Pipe Major.

The Pipe Major of the 2nd battalion from 1931-1937 was Charles Smith, I have heard.

Pipe Major Rob/Rab Roy was captured in Crete by the Germans, then escaped. He was the famous "Piper Of Tobruk". But I don't know when he became PM.

BTW I have seen that photo being listed as taken both in 1937 and in 1938 on various online forums.

The piper on the right is said to be Rob Roy.

[blackwatch70]

Good eye! Yes that's probably the Pipe Major.


The piper on the right is said to be Rob Roy.

yes ,probably you are correct, it is Rob Roy, I see obvious likeness with famous Tobruk photo.
His kilt with bullet holes from Black Watch museum...

RRkilt.jpg