Kilted Swordplay

[Knight]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not sure whether this is the appropriate forum. I looked at the various options, read the headlines, skimmed the contents, and couldn't decide. So, if the thread must needs be moved, I understand. I was surprised that there isn't a "Kilts in Action!" subform somewhere. All of the Kilted I know wear them in primarily athletic contexts; either when running, or as mobile change-stations for biking (I'm one of those), or during hiking...and even during fencing. Perhaps it's something to consider for the future of the XMTS boards? I digress.

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So, what we have here is the raw footage and a "commercial" produced in response to UT Kilts' latest newsletter, in which the company offered $15 gift certificates in exchange for videos of their kilts in action. My friend and I, who spar in the german longsword tradition, decided it would be a good idea to test a theory that we'd had for a while: that swordplay would be easier in a kilt. He wore the green Standard II, and I am wearing the Standard I. For what it's worth, we're using slightly modified Cold Steel trainer longswords. I cannot recommend the swords (they're little more than heavy bats, which is great for muscle training, but terrible for swordplay), but I can recommend the kilts, if you're in the market for something cost-effective and modern without wanting to invest in higher-end models.

A few things to note: we're wearing no safety gear whatsoever, whereas we would typically wear fencing masks and heavily padded gloves. For that reason, we agreed to leave thrusts out, and to keep body contact to a bare minimum to avoid injury. It's very, very easy to hurt one another in this particular form of swordplay, and particularly with the equipment we're using. So if it looks a bit staged, because no one is actually hit, that's because we're pulling blows. I typically walk away from sparring with a handful of bruises and rapped knuckles. We're also "locked" into that one section of the yard, which reduced footwork. We didn't want to expose our neighbor's house to the camera, nor shoot the busy street a few feet to the right of the camera. Typically, sparring involves much more footwork.

I could go on about the unfortunate artifices of the video, but why bother? In the video, I am Gray, and he is Green. Here is the raw footage:



The kilts performed admirably, and they definitely have a distinct "swish" that looks cool in video form. As an amateur swordsman, I can tell you that it was MUCH easier to move about in the kilt, and the UT Kilts' material is heavy enough that it never swept up or got in the way. I suspect that a mid-weight wool kilt would perform even better, but as I only have one of those, and it's a pretty, expensive thing, I won't be sparring in it...ever. I suspect a SportKilt would bind up about the legs during more rapid movement and would thus be ill-suited to swordplay. I may test it at some point.

Below is the finished "commercial" we made for UT Kilts. No word on whether or not we'll get our gift certificates, but it was fun to make the video, anyhow. All of the wording and editing in the video is my own, and does not in any way represent UT Kilts... I made it up as I went along and sent it their way the other day.

[wombat]

You gents were clearly having fun with the sparring, so it looks fine to me. Looks like fun, thanks for sharing!

[Dughlas mor]

That looks like quite a work out. I wonder if a 16th century Highlander would have been using similar techniques with his Claidheamh da laimh?

[Tarheel]

This is what I was looking for. I'm glad that UT Kilts made a contest to have videos of their kilts in action and that you submitted. A gift card is also a good incentive.
I see from the video that you have a belt on and are wearing your kilt above the hip bones. That seems to keep your kilt from slipping down (unlike the gent in the green Standard II). The top of the pleats seem to stay wrapped onto your bottom without dropping down thus the hem interfering with your calves. I observe freedom of movement in your legs (side to side as well as front to back) that can assist in thrusts, blocks and turns. The video wasn't long enough to indicate that your kilt twisted to one side or the other, and you stated that you were holding back due to lack of protective gear. Even if you don't do another video, let us know how the kilt held when you get into a full fledged sparring.

Ps. I hope there is more "kilted while in motion" videos (other than pipe bands marching). Thanks and good job.

[Father Bill]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not sure whether this is the appropriate forum. I looked at the various options, read the headlines, skimmed the contents, and couldn't decide. So, if the thread must needs be moved, I understand.

Moving to Weapons as Kilt Accessories subforum, with sincere thanks for your opening statement. I will leave a re-direct for a few days.

Father Bill for the Forum Moderators

[Knight]

No problem. I wasn't sure if this was the direct place to put it, since the "not allowed" specifies weapons not historically connected to the kilt. The German longsword doesn't have much of a connection, but this place makes as much sense as any.

I see from the video that you have a belt on and are wearing your kilt above the hip bones. That seems to keep your kilt from slipping down (unlike the gent in the green Standard II). The top of the pleats seem to stay wrapped onto your bottom without dropping down thus the hem interfering with your calves. I observe freedom of movement in your legs (side to side as well as front to back) that can assist in thrusts, blocks and turns. The video wasn't long enough to indicate that your kilt twisted to one side or the other, and you stated that you were holding back due to lack of protective gear. Even if you don't do another video, let us know how the kilt held when you get into a full fledged sparring.

A few thoughts in the vein of response: my belt definitely helps keep it up, but the thing is a bit on the tight side (New York winters are objectively endless, and so are holiday feasts). I was happily surprised that I didn't get "tangled" in the kilt in the way that I've felt while running in a Sport Kilt. I'm a big guy; when I run, there's a lot of motion, and lighter garments rise up higher than I'd like. The UT Kilt's duck cloth, or whatever that fabric is, stays ground-oriented without being restrictive. Typically in the past, we've sparred in loose jeans or athletic pants. However, those get hot, fast, and since we're both into wearing kilts, I think that's the way we're going to go now. Even though he wears his a bit lower than I do, upon discussion, Green wasn't bothered by the pleats miring around his legs at all. We were both happy to be able to move without the inseam restricting the bit of footwork we engaged in. After a good ten minutes of back and forth, we had no issues with the kilt sliding off-center (or up or down, for that matter).

We may do a video testing the Sport Kilts in sparring action to see if they have "rise" factors. Also, I agree that there ought to be more videos of the things in action. I've frequently read on this board, and elsewhere, of kilted adventures, and there are some photos of pretty landscapes and sharp tartans, but no video. As a summertime athlete, I'd be curious to see how the garment performs in a variety of context. Excepting heavy, highly tailored wool garments with full ornamentation, the kilt seems to me perfectly suited to action. For me, as a kilt-buyer, I'm always really interested in how it performs in action. Yet, there is little evidence.

That looks like quite a work out. I wonder if a 16th century Highlander would have been using similar techniques with his Claidheamh da laimh?

It's a full-body work out, for sure. A good sparring session intersperses technique study and sparring, so you can extend a while. On a full-spar day, we might only eek out a good 30 minutes before we're jelly-limbed. It's easy to get into: research HEMA, find a partner or two who are willing to look a bit silly and want to tone their muscles, and you've got yourself a new (deadlier) hobby.

The Scottish Claymore you're referencing would have a degree in similar utility and motion. It's a longer, heavier, broader weapon, though, so a claymore in action would be used more as a cutting and slashing weapon (for a variety of reasons; chief among them the difficulty of accurately thrusting the thing, and secondarily the challenge of returning it to a guard from the thrust position) than a German longsword (as seen in the video). I've never had the privilege of fencing with a claymore, but I do own one and have tested it in some light single drilling for cross-applicability. I found that the longer hilt makes some of the motions from my particular school of study more difficult, because the hands are substantially further apart, confounding some shoulder-rolling motions and requiring significant adjustment to footwork for best balance.

Specifically, we're studying the Lichtenauer tradition, which acts as a sort of "quick and dirty" minimalism to countermand the flashier schools of European swordplay popular in the 14th and 15th centuries. It's the Survivor's Style, if you want. Keep a guard and strike when the enemy presents an opening. In the context of the video, we're trading and countering the most common strikes, which makes for flashy play, but it's honestly bad form. One is better suited to step out of measure and towards safety, rather than seek to perry, and to then thrust or slash rapidly at the subsequent opening. But again: no safety equipment, and we wanted it to look cool. Gotta get them gift certificates!

I can answer more questions for those curious. I will try to put together another video in the next few weeks, since there appears to be some measure of curiosity, and I really am curious to know how the SKs behave in a combat situation.

[Tarheel]

Thanks for the clarity in the performance of your kilt. I think it might be better to limit the swordmanship aspects to personal messaging for those that are interested. That will keep the bylaws in play and yet a focus can be placed on particular motions (as you have done).

[Dughlas mor]

Thanks for the informative response, Knight. I`m afraid I`m a bit to old and decrepit to take up the longsword at this point, but sword fighting is a subject that interests me. I`ll look forward to any future videos.

[Knight]

Unfortunately, after speaking to forum administrators, there will be no follow up videos. I realize now that this represented a violation of the bylaws, so I am publicly asking that the thread be locked or deleted. There is no reason to allow a single discrepancy, and the discussion has run its course anyhow.

Anyone particularly curious may of course personal message me, or email me. I believe my address is publically viewable. I'd be happy to answer questions, but not in this specific venue.

Thanks!

[Father Bill]

Closing thread in accordance with the wishes of OP.

Sincere thanks.

Father Bill for the Forum Moderators.