bloody hell, i know i have a lot of questions. sorry aboot that. i just consider you all the authority, and i'm still infantile in my knowledge of the kilt! anyway, i was wondering if someone could explain the difference between argyll and prince charlie jackets - i know the style is slightly different, but are they for different occasions? one with a vest and the other without? thanks a lot.

The Argyll is for semi-formal to formal occasions. A vest is not usually worn with the Argyll jacket (though, it can be). The Argyll is the equivalent of a sports jacket.

The Prince Charlie is for very formal occasions.
A vest should be worn with the Prince Charlie.
The Prince Charlie is the equivalent of a tuxedo.

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Originally Posted by Alaskan

The Argyll is for semi-formal to formal occasions. A vest is not usually worn with the Argyll jacket (though, it can be). The Argyll is the equivalent of a sports jacket.

The Prince Charlie is for very formal occasions.
A vest should be worn with the Prince Charlie.
The Prince Charlie is the equivalent of a tuxedo.

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Very nicely explained, Alaskan.

Actually, I believe the Argyll in anything other than tweed to be a fairly modern and recent innovation. Not so many years ago, one could find Argylls only in Lovat Green or Lovat Blue - unless the purchaser went 'bespoke'!

My black "Argyll" is actually called a Crail Jacket!

Also, I would not swear to it, but I do not think one can buy a Prince Charlie without the vest/waistcoat. Mine certainly came with one.

I don't think I've ever seen a Prince Charlie sold without the vest/waistcoat either.

Seamus, don't ever be sorry about asking questions, we're all learning and you get there by asking.

That's what this forum is for.

I certainly fancy an argyle jacket sometime soon. "normal" jackets don't look to great with a kilt, I like the Tweed, green or blue, nice and 'earthy' looking.

ah, very nice. thanks for the help. i dont have a whole lot of money to spend, so i'm trying to "fudge it" as respectfully and tastefully as possible. i'm probably going to go with one of those eton waiter jackets that dont go past the hips. i've heard they look decent. oh, and when do you wear a necktie as opposed to a bowtie? is there a rule for this? thanks again.

You only need a bow tie for occasions that would require a tux.

Trying to keep this as brief as possible, in the UK there are basically 2 styles of kilt jacket, the Argyll/Crail and the Prince Charlie. The Argyll/Crail are almost identical, the difference being in the cuff styling (the Argyll has a gauntlet cuff and the buttons run round the cuff, whereas the Crail has a straight cuff and the buttons run up the sleeve).

The Argyll/Crail is worn as day wear (tweed, usually blue, green or charcoal grey - equivalent of sports coat or suit) or semi-formal/formal (black barathea). The degree of formality is signified by the accessories worn (plain leather day/semi-dress or dress sporran, plain or bow tie, etc). The Prince Charlie is normally black barathea and is always formal - usually worn with a waistcoat (vest) and with the higher waist kilt where the top is covered by the vest - in this instance a belt should not be worn.

If you're only going to buy 1 jacket, I always recommend the charcoal grey tweed Argyll/Crail, which when worn with the right accessories can be dressed up/down to cover most occasions except the most formal.

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Originally Posted by Robbie

... If you're only going to buy 1 jacket, I always recommend the charcoal grey tweed Argyll/Crail, which when worn with the right accessories can be dressed up/down to cover most occasions except the most formal.

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In your experience then the charcoal grey is preferable to jet black.? Is black too formal?

that would be my question. and how can you match every tartan to blue, green or charcoal? again, i've got stewart black. and what color necktie should i wear? and with what kind of dress shirt? ....*head explodes*...

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Originally Posted by seamus

that would be my question. and how can you match every tartan to blue, green or charcoal? again, i've got stewart black. and what color necktie should i wear? and with what kind of dress shirt? ....*head explodes*...

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I have tweed Argylls in lovat green and charcoal, and the charcoal goes with almost any colour tartan kilt, whereas the lovat green is rather more limited - green and red tartans do well, but many others are non-starters!

In your case, Seamus, Black Stewart will be perfect with charcoal tweed - black and grey go well together. Both your shirt and your tie should be unpatterned. A white shirt does well for all situations from very casual to very formal and, with Black Stewart, a plain red woollen tie would be perfect.

Hmmmm. With Black Stewart maybe black shirt and red tie. Would sure stand out in the crowd. :wink:

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Originally Posted by bubba

Hmmmm. With Black Stewart maybe black shirt and red tie. Would sure stand out in the crowd. :wink:

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Spot on, Bubba, if no jacket is being worn, but I think a black shirt with a charcoal jacket would be 'unbalanced'. The dominant colour should be in the jacket for a 'kewl' appearance, not in the shirt!

It has nothing to do with 'rules', but it has a lot to do with aesthetics! :)

Ham, agreed, a charcoal jacket wouldn't work with that, but a black one would look pretty sharp. I'm just not fond of white shirts. One time I even wore a chambry work shirt with a jacket and tie. The shirt is a light blue. Worked pretty well.

oh lord, controversy! well i suppose i shall just have to try some different things and see what i like. thanks for your input everyone.

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Originally Posted by seamus

oh lord, controversy! well i suppose i shall just have to try some different things and see what i like. thanks for your input everyone.

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seamus, it's really a matter of taste. It's just that, unlike Hamish, some of us have our taste in our feet. :lol:

Thanks Hamish, you've just solved my problem about which jacket to buy, I always fancied a Lovat green tweed, but Grey would be more versatile, I have kilts that have a lot of blue and others that are mostly green to match.

I hereby nominate Hamish as fashion consultant to the board.
All those is favour say aye!

I'll vote for that. Considering my idea of formal is wearing shoes...... :wink: