Unbelievable!!

[Tattoo Bradley]

I have to share this with everyone, even though it is completely unrelated to kilts.

Yesterday I finished the first of two advanced lab training courses here in Sugarland, and I'm here over the weekend because I have another beginning Monday in Houston. Well, one of my classmate's has a rental car and he's not flying out until this morning. There was a girl from Nigeria in our class who wanted to go to a mall (first time in the USA) So, he was more than glad to take her and asked if I'd like to go. "Sure, why not."

So, we wonder the mall separately for about an hour. During that time I draw money from an ATM machine and purchase some chocolate from Godiva. We meet back up and head out. When we're in the parking lot the Nigerian girl expresses she would like to go to an electronics store for a USB hub and cable. "You got it, we'll go to Best Buy or Circuit City or something." We pull up next to a security guard and ask for directions to one of them. He gives us directions and off we go.

We had just pulled out of the main parking lot when rental cops surrounded us from all sides. It was like a "flashlight swat team" or something. INSANE. We're all obviously stunned and sit in shock. The first rental cop comes up to the window and tells us we have to wait where we are as there is a Police Officer who needs to speak with us. This guy was so amped he was actually kind of making me nervous. You know the type... he's short of breath.. huffing and puffing... looks like he's going to cry. Well, we sit but ask why we're being held. He says the officer will explain. He then tells us to turn the engine off. My classmate simply says "no, we're not in a police state. I will do NO such thing." The mall cop keeps telling him to turn it off but he becomes more aggravated each time and refuses.

After a few minutes a cop shows up and asks for our IDs (the two of us and not the Nigerian girl.) We again demand to know what's going on and he says he will explain back at the mall that we HAVE TO come with him. He then takes our IDs and get in a mall van and instructs us to follow him. At this point I'm beginning to wonder if one of my classmates pulled a Wynona and looted a bunch merchandise in the mall. I don't know them after all, and we were all separated for about an hour.

We get to the mall and are directed to a back room. It was a surveillance room with cameras and a mixture of mall cops and real cops. The main cop is on a cell phone and asks us both a bunch of questions about where we work and where we're from. He keeps asking me if I have a white ATM access card. I tell him I don't know what he's talking about, but that I did use the ATM and I have a gold bank card. After many questions and lots of chatter on his cell phone he hangs up, hands me my ID, and says "Oh, just a mistaken identity." Now I am furious. "You THINK????" I retort. "I need an explanation NOW." He goes on to tell me that there is a man in Houston who owns several hundred ATM machines and has some disgruntled employee they suspect of stealing money from the machines. He further tells me this employee's company vehicle is at the mall (the owner has a GPS unit on the vehicle.) I ask "so, are you seriously going to tell me this employee looks like me? Stretched ear lobes, arms and neck tattooed??" "Are you SERIOUSLY tell me that? Cause I think it sounds like BS." "Yep, believe it or not he does... bald headed and everything," he states.

I was obviously free to go at this point. But, man, I was disgusted the whole night. What a bunch of nonsense.

[auld argonian]

I'm goin' with the "Tattoobradley Evil Twin" theory.

It's very Twin Peaks.....

Best

AA

[Tattoo Bradley]

I'm goin' with the "Tattoobradley Evil Twin" theory.

It's very Twin Peaks.....

Best

AA

HAHAHAHA. Good Bradley; Bad Bradley.

[cessna152towser]

Yes, its so embarrassing when this sort of thing happens. When I lived in Paisley I once had a cop nab me on the street who said I was wanted in connection with a series of thefts of scrap metal. He went on his radio and summoned two other cops in a car who took him and me to the local police station where I was questioned and fingerprinted. They then insisted on driving me home so that someone else in the family could confirm my identity. No apology for having lifted me off a public street and wasted an hour of my time.

[Coinneach]

They don't call them insecurity police for nothing.

[The Supreme Canuck]

You realize you had no legal obligation to give the cop your ID, right? You are only required to tell him your name, address, and DOB. You didn't need to follow him. He couldn't hold you. If you asked him "Am I under arrest?" he would have said no. Then you could just leave. If he said yes, you should have asked him why. He'd have nothing to tell you.

I wouldn't put up with this. Know you rights.

[ChromeScholar]

Some time back (ten years, at least), I was working security (mall cop, but not quite). I went in to get my license renewed. I filled out the paperwork turned it in. The girl gets my file, comes back looking upset. She tells me that I didn't put down my convictions. Further, she says, filing a false application is a crime. About that time two officers come in.

I'm trying to figure out what the hell she's talking about, and I see my file, with my first, middle and last name at the top, along with my social security number. That's when I realize that the social security number ain't mine. The first 3 digits are the same, the rest is different. While the cops are trying to decide what to do, I point the discrepancy out the the clerk. She goes back to the files, and returns with my file. Turns out there was a guy in the same town, with the same first, middle and last name, and the same first 3 digits in his social, who was a convicted wife beater who had been turned down for a license.

The girl, now red-faced, apologized. The cops just left.

[ChromeScholar]

You realize you had no legal obligation to give the cop your ID, right? You are only required to tell him your name, address, and DOB. You didn't need to follow him. He couldn't hold you. If you asked him "Am I under arrest?" he would have said no. Then you could just leave. If he said yes, you should have asked him why. He'd have nothing to tell you.

That may be how it works in Canada.. In the US, the cop had probable cause, based on a complaint and description, that Tattoobradley had committed a crime. If he had refused to give the cop his ID, the cop would have detained him long enough to ascertain his identity, and would have had every legal power to do so. Oh, and at the point where he was required to accompany the officer, Tattoobradley was legally "under arrest".

In the US, you do not fight, or argue with a police officer on the side of the road. You cooperate with him fully. If he is outside his legal authority, you hire a lawyer after the fact and sue the pants off him. Security guards, on the other hand, are private citizens. Them, you can tell to take a flying leap on a rolling donut.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Was he told he was under arrest? Was he read his rights? Looks like no. It therefore does not meet the legal requirements of arrest - the requirements are very specific. As Tattoobradley said:

After a few minutes a cop shows up and asks for our IDs (the two of us and not the Nigerian girl.) We again demand to know what's going on and he says he will explain back at the mall that we HAVE TO come with him.

He asked the cop what was going on, and the officer did not respond that he was under arrest. He was thus under no obligation to follow him - he was not being legally detained.

[ChromeScholar]

Was he told he was under arrest? Was he read his rights?

Doesn't have to be. What you may have seen on US TV, or what is true in Canada isn't what is true in real life in the US. A US police officer does not have to say "You're under arrest" for you to be under arrest. When the police officer told him that he had to go with the police officer, that is legally the same as being placed under arrest. The officer does not have to read you your rights the instant you are arrested.

The Miranda warning is given by police to suspects in police custody, or in a custodial situation, before they are asked questions. An incriminating statement by a suspect doesn't count as evidence unless the suspect was advised of his or her "Miranda rights" and made a voluntary waiver of those rights. However, police may request name, date of birth, and address, and other identifying information without first reading suspects their Miranda rights.

By requiring Tattoobradley to accompany him, the officer created a custodial situation. If Tattoobradley had attempted to leave, the officer would certainly have placed him in handcuffs. If he intended to interrogate Tattoobradley, then he would have had to read him his rights, or anything Tattoobradley said might have been inadmissible in court. Note, however, that he does not have to read him his rights simply to ascertain identity.

In any case, I stick by my earlier statement. Never get confrontational with a cop. You will lose, and it will be that much harder to get out of the situation later. If a cop is doing something he shouldn't, you can take it up later, through the legal channels. That is what attorneys exist for. If the cop is in the wrong, and you get in a fight with him, that will count against you later. If the cop is in the wrong, and you hold it together, calmly, it will be a big plus on your side when the matter goes to court (whether you instigate the court proceedings, or they do.)