Questioning thoughts

[SmokinScotsman]

So I have only been here for a couple of months and I have come to have some questions about how "newbies" are steered toward less than desirable goods and provisioners of those goods. I do know that I myself once fell prey to the allure of cheap merchandise as far as kilting goes, but will never go back to that "stuff" again.
The main reason I am bringing this up is that I have seen a few threads on here that people tell noobs to look at vendors that are obviously Pakistani. I am in no way implying that the Pakistani people are bad, but why would we want to promote vendors that take business away from the originators of kilts and kilt accessories? Also, from what I have seen the workmanship is far below that of the Scottish, or even the American "middlemen", vendors.
Yes you do pay more money for "the real thing", but I can honestly say that my "fakie" kilts will not last past 5yrs more than likely. I have one kilt from Scotland and 2 UKs, they are all older than 5, and I don't see them going to the landfill anytime soon.
Any other thoughts on this?

[Jock Scot]

It is an easy and understandable route to take for a beginner in almost everything we do. Am I going to like my new undertaking? Am I going to invest a lot of money in this?Can I justify it? Plus a whole host of other questions that are perfectly reasonable.

The end result is that many go down the "cheap" route. Nothing wrong with that at all. However, as has been pointed out by the OP that route can turn out to be a false economy. Good kilt attire is not cheap, nevertheless there is no guarantee that expensive kit is good value either.

The advice that I would(and do) give is, after careful research buy the very best that you can afford and take your time in gathering your kilt attire together as it is, when all said and done, an expensive exercise.

Now, at the risk of upsetting the merchants here, I would council against the purchase of more than one good kilt for the first few years, so that your thoughts(and cash) can be directed in accumulating a complete ensemble of kilt attire.

[Chas]

Flame away if you feel the need.

Strikes me that you are inviting a flame war. My advice would be -

"Don't feed the Troll."

Regards

Chas

[Danwell]

Chas, I think you're being unnecessarily terse here.

SmokinScot.......I think the reason people are "steered toward less than desirable goods and provisioners of those goods" is because some of us recognise that not everyone has the funds to buy a $200 sporran, $200 hose, a $600 kilt, $600 jacket.......all of these things add up to a quite considerable sum very, very quickly.

My thinking is this.......spend the money where it is important - ie, on a kilt, maybe on a jacket. You can spend significantly less on goods that are going to do the job, look good, and still going to of ok quality. If you're looking to put together an outfit quickly, you can buy these without a huge initial outlay, and replace them with higher quality bespoke pieces when the funds are available.

I don't think people should shun these goods simply because of where they're made or the place in the market that they fill........

[McClef]

Flaming will not be allowed.

If this thread is to have a future the OP should seriously rephrase his post bearing in mind Rule #2 and #4.

Discussion on cheap goods and their quality is the issue, not the race of providers nor the defining of "rightful."

Thanks.

[Dale Seago]

My thinking is this.......spend the money where it is important - ie, on a kilt, maybe on a jacket. You can spend significantly less on goods that are going to do the job, look good, and still going to of ok quality. If you're looking to put together an outfit quickly, you can buy these without a huge initial outlay, and replace them with higher quality bespoke pieces when the funds are available.

I totally agree with that. While the adage "Buy the best, cry only once" is certainly applicable, it simply makes sound economic sense to "test the waters" first. When you consider that:

- a good kilt will cost as much as a good suit;
- a really nice kilt jacket & waistcoat will cost as much as a good suit;
- a really nice sporran may cost as much as a good suit;
- an accessory like a really nice bespoke sgian dubh that you can actually frakkin' CUT something with may easily cost as much as a good suit;

- Plus all this "day wear vs. evening wear" stuff. . .

Is it any wonder that someone new to wearing kilts and not sure how often he's likely to do it may feel a bit "financially intimidated" and want to go the low-budget route first?

I would go so far as to suggest too that simple cost is the most important difficulty to surmount in getting the kilt accepted once more on a broad scale as "just clothing", as it used to be.

I have no problem with the cost of the basic garment, it's all this Victorian-derived tomfoolery about how to wear it that tends to ensure its relative scarcity. Personally, I'm now in the midst of a buying spree and getting myself more wool kilts and other associated clothing and accessories. . .But to be honest, this is only occurring because a greedy new building owner unlawfully evicted me from the apartment I'd lived in for 14 years and I'm now six figures happier about it than I was at first.

I think the makers of various sorts of "casual" and otherwise less expensive kilts do those with an interest in the garment a great service.

[artificer]

I believe the ONLY times you'll see people pointed toward "cheaper goods" (which is a fairly subjective term) are:

1) when someone isn't sure that they'll enjoy wearing the kilt, or are VERY fearful of it's reception by others

2) will be using it for an activity which might cause significant wear/destruction.

The advice is quite fair because even 'cheap' highland wear retains some of it's value and can be sold for a fair percentage of it's original cost. Look at the For Sale pages. Most people selling even decently made acrylic kilts and such get a very good portion of their cost back.

Why would you advise someone who ISN'T sure that kilting will work for them to lay out $1000 US on a custom fitted kilt, high end sporran, hand knit hose, etc? Not only would the delay often chase people away (6-14 weeks for some people's work), but I'm sure many would balk at the steep 'entry fee'.

I don't think you'll see too many people here advising those who KNOW that they're going to be wearing a kilt often (or even once for really a big occasion) to buy a $30 acrylic kilt, $10 sporran, and $3 white nylon hose.

[Riverkilt]

You can have any two of price, quality, or service.

Value is what we seek.

Paying attention to this board, or doing searches for vendors you're considering, will help prevent being taken advantage of.

You WILL build a collection, since you'll need kilts and accessories for various types of weather and various occasions.

Last week I was taking my USA Casuals to Tucson for my daughter's graduation - because of the desert heat. When it came down to it I decided the occasion was more important than the weather and chose to wear my 11 ounce hand sewn wool in a clan tartan to honor the occasion. Experienced no discomfort in the lightweight wool kilt.

Point is, I had a choice from building my kilt collection from quality vendors in a range of fabric and wool weights.

The addiction flourishes with time.

I choose Quality and Service because they equal value.

[auld argonian]

I've been sort of thinking about this very same thing for a while now.

Like a lot of people, I wasn't sure that I'd look good in a kilt, enjoy wearing the kilt or face total social ostracization if I showed up anywhere in a kilt. So I ordered a Stillwater just to "test the water". Enjoyed it, felt right, got some flack from people but who cares...

So I've gradually upgraded my stuff over a couple of years but now I figure that I'm pretty much done. There are a couple of things that I'd like to have but they have to go to the back of the "I need it" line for a while while I pursue other priorities.

I'm exercising some caution because I don't want to fall into that obsessive acquisition syndrome that is SO easy to fall into. I have a couple of kilts and jackets...how many more do I practically need? I'm on a forum where I routinely read that other members are filling their closets with kilts and numbering their "kollection" in the dozens...okay for them but not my cup of tea.

My way of saying that if I had to give advice to one of these newbies, I'd say that, if you're undecided, get one of the acrylic or PV kilts from one of the REPUTABLE sources that are always mentioned here and, if you like it, go straight for the eight yard woolie in your appropriate tartan next. Don't "nibble around the edges"...just invest in good stuff and wear it well. I really haven't seen too many recommendations for the bargain basement stuff...usually it's admonitions to proceed at your own risk when dealing with the low-ball crowd. One of the benefits of this forum is the ongoing discussion of dealers and suppliers and if you check here you are going forewarned and forearmed into the world of kilt merchandise.

Love Dale S's reference to "Victorian tomfoolery"...I think that it does get that way at times and ya gotta try to drag the kilt (kicking and screaming) into the 21st Century and maybe try to cool the frou-frou's for everday wear.

Best

AA

[thescot]

All of the gentlemen writing here make excellent points. I would add one more:

With a bit of time, you will find small providers--here and elsewhere--who operate cottage industries and provide excellent products. They won't be advertsing in The Scotsman , but their quality is above reproach, and they will work with you to create exactly what you want instead of strictly off-the-wall items. But you have to find these guys and gals, and usually it takes time in the loop to discover who and where they are. Many of them are here.

For someone new to the kilt, I do not recommend the purchase of top-of-the-line sporrans or hose or other items which are easily replace with top quality later because they're just too expensive. A perfectly serviceable sporran can be had for about $25; it's cheap, yes, and will not last for 20 years, but it will allow the wearer to decide whether he wants to continue wearing the kilt. There will be time to begin the search for that perfect item which will probably outlast your grandchildren and cost a king's ransom. And the search is part of the fun.

I've been wearing kilts for several years--12-15 or so--and I am still acquiring the very best items over all. I have quite a few that I will probably sell off eventually--some failry expensive that just didn't suit--but I have learned a lot and had a lot of fun learning it over the years. Some I will keep as souvenirs of lessons learned and good times had, and they also allow for a great deal of latitude in the choice of what to wear depending on the conditions and the event. I do not want to wear a $200 sporran if there's a chance of getting it soiled or rained on. My inexpensive military version will do for that.

Good luck in your own search.