Buy a balmoral?

[frank_a]

If ya seem to be right between a L and XL, go larger? I want the cap to fit well, but not exactly sure how to measure. Actually it looks like I'm just at 7-1/2, which is at the lower end of XL, but just bought an irish wool cap that's L, and I like the snug fit. One of my fedoras (the only one labeled for size) is XL and fits great.

An art & a science? It's one thing to go to a store and try hats on. For what I want to get, that just doesn't seem possible!

Any suggestions? Thanks!

Frank

[mookien]

Frank: For a balmoral, or any Scottish bonnet, I would eschew the L, XL, etc. designations. To my knowledge they are not standardized. Instead, use hat sizes, inches, or better yet, centimeters. Ask your wife to measure your head with a measuring tape (most have inches on one side and centimeters on the other). Have her place the tape on your head where you want the bottom of the bonnet to sit.

A size 7-1/2 is 60 cm, or about 23.6 in. I suggest using cm, since most companies accept that unit of measure and it is more precise, since a cm is smaller than an inch. If you are indeed a 7-1/2, then your head will measure 60 cm. Assuming, as is likely, you fall somewhere between an even centimeter measure, then if you like a snug fit, round down. For a looser fit, round up. In any case good luck, because both measurement and manufacture are probably in the range of + or - 1/2 cm.

John

[frank_a]

Actually John, Gail got 60 cm, or 23-1/2. Again, I have hats that are different sizes, at least as far as the L, XL sizes go. It just seems to me to be an art, this measuring for a hat, especially when the only way I can get one is to order something very specific (i.e., 59 0r 60 cm). I'm looking here rigtht now: http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/balmorals.html

For hat sizing, I've been looking here: http://www.davidmorgan.com/hatsizing.html

and here: http://www.villagehatshop.com/head_size.html

50 bucks isn't a lot of dough, but I sure want to get it right. Maybe I should just go with the 60 and see what happens. Hmmmm.

Thanks!

Frank

[The Wizard of BC]

First of all, I like hats. Almost any type or style of hat. There was a time I was not without a hat outdoors. So I think I can shed a little light here on all the confusion.

Just as we do with kilts. Always go with the measuring system of the person you will buy your hat from. Never use one sellers sizing info for a different seller.

As with most things there are off-the-rack sizes and sizes for custom made. Off-the-rack sizes are usually pretty vague. A Large from one company may be a Medium from another. And their may be large differences within each listed size.

If you question the sizing of a hat call the seller. Any seller worth your money should give you the exact sizing of their products.

If you are looking for brand names there are two which stick out. "Robert Mackie" and "Glengarry Hats". Of the two I would choose Glengarry Hats for the following reasons.
I have held balmorals from both companies side by side. The Glengarry was heavier overall and the wool was thicker and of a tighter weave than the Mackie.
I found the Glengarry to take shape better. The Mackie shrank by 10% where the Glengarry shrank not at all.
I liked the finish of the Glengarry better for its straighter stitching and the better liner. I found sizing more consistent with Glengarry. And I prefer the ribbon on the Glengarry.
Finally, the Glengarry is about half the price of a Mackie.

[frank_a]

This is the Glengarry one I like: http://www.glengarryhats.com/balmora...oralmaroon.php

Thing is Steve, I'm asking family for kilt gifts and one son wants to buy me a hat. I'll get hold of glengarryhats.com (who I believe is the company you referenced?) and see what they say, then relay the info.

Thank you VERY much!

Frank

[thescot]

At the risk of sounding like a nay-sayer, I must say Nay to Glengarry hats--well sort of Nay. (Disclaimer: this I based on experience from a few years back. Maybe it's different now, but there is that Negative Reinforcement thing, i.e., not being positively reinforced by avoiding the stimulus is quite strong!)

I own one of their balmorals, a khaki that I really wanted. It fit well when it got in, no problem with the workmanship, etc. BUT . . . the amount of material in the bonnet is less than most bonnets, so it doesn't drape to the side like other bonnets. I have several bonnets, including a Mackie, and all of them have more material in the bonnet which allow the side to drape well over the sweat band. On the Glengarry model, it only just comes to the bottom of the sweat band and ends up looking like one of those modern military berets. (See a Legionaire wearing a Foreign Legion beret to get the idea.) It just doesn't look right, so I never wear it. I mentioned this once, and another prominent X-marker agreed. In fact, I spotted his bonnet as a Glengarry Hats version because of this.

Also, I expect a small amount of shrinkage from a wool bonnet, so I would recommend going with a larger size if you fall in between sizes. And remember that working with cloth is always a bit sketchy; it's impossible to make two identical items exactly the same size. If a bit loose, you can sew a small strip of elastic inside to take up slack, better than trying to stretch one that's too small. I wear a 7 1/2 hat, so I purchase a 60 cm, and it works out fine.

Yes, a Mackie costs more--substantially more--but it's a top quality bonnet that is proven as a fine garment. Ask around on the forum--Jock Scot,
creagdhubh, or other experienced kilters. When you buy something like this, you want one that'll be with you for years. And a Mackie certainly will be.

[ForresterModern]

Another option would be to look around the forum to see the work of the handful of custom weavers who can make a custom bonnot in a custom color for about the same as a Mackie, maybe a tad more.

[kiltedrennie]

Another option would be to look around the forum to see the work of the handful of custom weavers who can make a custom bonnot in a custom color for about the same as a Mackie, maybe a tad more.

SemperFyffe, Piperdbh, and I make balmoral bonnets and are registered hobbyists. If you're interested contact one or all of us for more information.

[Lon Scot Reg Secretary]

I agree with Jim (TheScot) about having a large enough 'crown' so that it hangs down far enough over the right ear. Military TOS and Balmorals have changed over the years from the enormous 'cow pat' WW1 types which would keep the rain of your shoulders, through to the 1980s when TOss looked like pork pies! In Scottish Regiments, traditionally the Officers wore a fawn/putty grey balmoral and the other ranks wore khaki TOSs.
Back to Balmorals, The Regiment used to buy them from Meyer and Mortimer in Sackville Street who made all the different Regimental patterns for the Officers, but when all the Scottish Regiments formed into The Royal Regiment of Scotland, they changed the dress regulations to wearing a khaki version. M&M stopped ordering the material, and the supply dried up. We now have them made specially in the UK, and we have them made with a slightly larger crown.
Stuart Young.jpg

[frank_a]

Thanks guys, but 1st of all, I just started getting into this stuff a year ago, and then with a cheap acrylic kilt. Since then, I've got a PV kilt, still no wool yet. I just bought a Bonnie Prince Charlie jacket and waistcoat from USA Kilts, all wool, and I'll be broke for a while now. I would like to get a tank before I retire in a few years. Unfortunately, I am NOT made of $. Nevertheless I very much appreciate the suggestions, and someday may be able to buy (or better yet have someone make me) a better hat.

Frank