X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    13th March 05
    Location
    Orange County, CA., U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,552
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    "Restricted" Tartan vs. "Unrestricted" T

    I know people have been saying you don't need approval to wear any specific tartan, but many people either disagree, or are misinformed about the subject. Is there a list of tartans that are "officially" considered unresticted? I think it would be easier to head off any potential arguements or attitudes if one could just say "No, it's officially ok for me to wear this, and here's why.

  2. #2
    macwilkin is offline
    Retired Forum Moderator
    Forum Historian

    Join Date
    22nd June 04
    Posts
    9,938
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    restricted tartans...

    The Balmoral Tartan is considered a "restricted" tartan because one must have permission to wear it from HM the Queen -- the tartan was designed for Queen Victoria & named after her Highland estate at Balmoral, Scotland.

    Some clan tartans are restricted in the sense that one must have permission of the Chief and/or clan society before wearing them, and usually the Chief and/or society sells the material exclusively.

    Cheers,

    Todd

  3. #3
    Join Date
    3rd February 05
    Location
    Pullman, Washington
    Posts
    283
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I know that when I was visiting Castle Menzies in Weem, the caretaker, when he found out I was a Means, basically said, "Well, then you can wear the tartan." He proceeded to take me to a "members only" wing of the castle. I thought it a bit strange, considering there were plenty of Menzies tartans availible for sale in Edinburgh. Maybe he was just being a snob, oh well.

    As Todd said, the Balmoral is the only restricted tartan, but there is a large lot of tartans that are officially open.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    13th March 05
    Location
    Orange County, CA., U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,552
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: restricted tartans...

    Quote Originally Posted by cajunscot
    Some clan tartans are restricted in the sense that one must have permission of the Chief and/or clan society before wearing them, and usually the Chief and/or society sells the material exclusively.

    Cheers,

    Todd
    That was the impression I had, and was the standard I was going to follow in wearing a tartan, but I noticed that some of the members here advocate a more relaxed view toward tarans and affiliation.

    I realize there's not going to be any "prosecutions" or anything if you wear one, but is it simply a matter of whether or not to respect the wishes of the particular clan that lays claim to that tartan, or is there more going on?

    So far, all I have are a couple of UKs, but I've been considering getting something more traditionally designed, to help get people to realize that I'm wearing MALE garments, and I think that an occasional tartan might facilitate that a little easier. When choosing from what's available from any given vendor, are there any traditional guidelines I should keep in mind? I can't afford a custom-made kilt, and my family tartan (McKillop) isn't exactly a common selection, so I'm kinda' stuck with what's offered from the "casual kilt" makers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoduck
    As Todd said, the Balmoral is the only restricted tartan, but there is a large lot of tartans that are officially open.
    Any way to ID which ones?

  5. #5
    Mike1's Avatar
    Mike1 is offline
    Retired Forum Adminstrator
    Join Date
    23rd September 04
    Location
    Lafayette, Indiana
    Posts
    1,693
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Mr. Google is your friend. Search for district tartans, regional tartans, etc.

    Many cities have tartans, New York being just one. Glasgow, Edinburgh, Inverness, Isle of Skye, etc. There are remembrance tartans - Jacobite and Culloden.

    Take a look at these and see if one resonates within you.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    23rd February 04
    Location
    Just minutes from the Mason Dixon Line
    Posts
    99
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm going to risk looking like an eegit here, in the hopes that someone more knowledgable than I will jump in and correct me. I had the same concern regarding showing respect for people's heritage and bought a "univeral" Black Watch Sport Kilt for my first. If I had known about USA Kilts, Bear Kilts and Still Water Kilts, they would hav been my first choices.

    USA has some great choices, and many of them are not really registered tartans, so you can make up your own clan history to go with the kilt Bear has a great selection, inluding canadian provincial tartans, which I believe are universal (though I would hate to get my A$$ kicked by a bunch of Saskatchewinians who disapprove of a yank wearing "their" tartan, eh? Bear himself makes them by hand and they are worth the wait from everything I've read here. The same is true of USAK, they are hand made by Rocky and Kelly. I think they advertise that they have the best turnaround time for a custom made kilt. It has been stated that Stillwater kilts are made in Pakistan, I don't know. They have a very limited selecion of tartans, BUT are in stock. The standard (not Economy) look MUCH better than an SK, and are competitively priced. I don't expect the SW to last as long as my USA kilt. So I don't mind pubbing in it.

    Having said all of that, I based my kilt buying decision on what I was able to glean from the internet regarding "universal tartans" some of which I excerpted (copied and pasted) below. In addition to Black Watch, and Stewart Hunting I beleive I read somewhere that Stewart Royal is also considered Universal, (kilt #2). On which I made a leap of faith, and based on popularity and availability, came to beleive that all Stewarts are universal (eegit statement). So #3 was a Stewart Grey USAK, and #4 a Stewart Black SWK. I have also been told reently that Gordon Dress is a universal, as is some Campbell tartan. Personally, I'm thinking of pledging fealty to the Stewarts because of my wardrobe, but I need to do some more research on the history of Lamont and Stewart before that. I know I shouldn't claim my probable Lamont heritage and wear a Campbell tartan.

    Anyway, that's the road I travelled to being concientously kilted. Hope it helps.

    Good luck and kilt on!
    Les

    from http://www.tartans.scotland.net/tartan_types

    "Before the´45, six Independent Companies (of soldiery) were raised to police the Highlands of Scotland, so creating a Regiment called the Black Watch.

    Before 1740, they used a dark tartan which came to be called the Black Watch. Its origin is still argued but when tartan was proscribed it became the Government tartan and is now a Universal one, that all may wear."

    "There are quite a number of Universal Tartans. Hunting Stewart is one as are Black Watch, Caledonian, and Jacobite (assuming you have those sympathies). These are the older ones. There are now other modern ones such as Scottish National, Scottish National dress, National, Brave Heart Warrior (both dress and hunting), Flower of Scotland and Pride of Scotland."
    And you may ask yourself, Well how did I get here?

  7. #7
    macwilkin is offline
    Retired Forum Moderator
    Forum Historian

    Join Date
    22nd June 04
    Posts
    9,938
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    open tartans...

    The term "universal" originally referred to a universal tartan worn by Scottish soldiers in the British Army, the aforementioned Independent Highland Companies that later became the Royal Highland Regiment (the old 42nd & 73rd regiments of foot), the "Black Watch". It is only recently that the "universal" or "government sett", as it was known, truly became an "open" tartan, mostly due to marketing.

    The same with the Stewart Royal sett, which was originally a tartan which was worn only by permission -- Pipers in the Black Watch & King's Own Scottish Borderers, for instance, wear the Stewart Royal.

    The Stewart Hunting has little connection with the Stewarts, but is another military tartan which has become "universal"; the Royal Scots, the oldest regiment of the British line (raised under warrant from Charles I in 1633 for service in France) wears the Stewart Hunting (as trews).

    There are also tartans like the Caledonia & Jacobite tartans, for anyone one to wear, and the aforementioned Flower of Scotland, Scottish National, etc.

    District Tartans for Scottish districts, Canadian provinces, US states, etc. are a great alternative to clan/family tartans, and do not receive the attention they deserve, since they are a much more older tradition than the clan tartan.

    Bottom line: unless it's Balmoral, or a tartan that can only be purchased from a Chief or Clan/family society, then it's "open", BUT, always "know your tartan" and the history behind it.

    Cheers,

    Todd

  8. #8
    Mike1's Avatar
    Mike1 is offline
    Retired Forum Adminstrator
    Join Date
    23rd September 04
    Location
    Lafayette, Indiana
    Posts
    1,693
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by erudite
    I know I shouldn't claim my probable Lamont heritage and wear a Campbell tartan.


    Ahhh, it would be so easy to start a good slaggin', right here, eh? I must be mindful of my manners.

    Dae oany of ye ken th' date o' 3 June 1646, at aw? Aye, fawks want tae mind th' shame o' Glencoe, fergettin' aboot th' Lamonts in '46. Hae ye e'er seen air heard o' the Lamont Memorial, ootside o' Dunoon?

    Cho fad's a bhios siat àn coill' bidh foill ann an Caimbeulach

    Drop me a PM, Erudite, and I will provide you a translation from the Gàidhlig.

  9. #9
    M. A. C. Newsome is offline
    INACTIVE

    Contributing Tartan Historian
    Join Date
    26th January 05
    Location
    Western NC
    Posts
    5,714
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here is the deal. You are never going to see a list of all of the non-restircted tartans. And the reason is this -- there are just too many of them!

    The Balmoral being the only exception I can think of off hand, any other tartan can be worn by anyone at all, any time you like. And the restriction on wearing the Balmoral tartan is really more of a matter of custom than of law. If I wanted to, I could call up my weaver, order a few yards of the Balmoral tartan for myself, make a kilt, and wear it all over the Highland Games. Many would think I was in bad taste (though most wouldn't know the difference), but the point is there is no legal restriction on someone weaving or wearing this tartan.

    Now there are many tartans that do have restrictions on who can produce the cloth, and who can sell the cloth. But these restrictions do not apply to who can wear the cloth. The House of Edgar, for instance, designed all of the Irish County tartans, and they are restricted in the sense that only that woolen mill is producing the cloth, and if I want some, I have to buy it from them. I can't have another weaver produce it, because The House of Edgar has the rights to to all of those tartans. But anyone who wishes can wear them. No restrictions on that.

    Same with some clan tartans. Just about all the clan tartans you can want are generally available from any tartan import store. There are a few clan tartans that you might have to buy direct from the clan societies, but this again is a restriction on who can produce and sell the tartan, not who can wear it. For a while, the Clan Young tartan was like this. It was a newly designed tartan for the clan, and one man had the rights to it. Anyone could wear it, but if you wanted it, you had to buy it from the clan society. A few years back, Lochcarron of Scotland was granted permission to also weave it (which is why it is much more commonly seen now). But you certainly don't need permission or approval from a clan society to wear a clan tartan.

    Remember this. Tartans are representative. They represent clans, families, places, businesses, etc. When you wear a tartan, you are somehow identifying yourself with what that tartan represents. Most people are going to want to choose a tartan that in some way reflects their heritage. It could be a tartan that matches your last name. It could be the tartan of your sixth-great-grandmother. It could be the tartan of the place your anscestors were from, or it could be the tartan for the place you live now. Maybe its the clan tartan of a good friend, or the district tartan for a place you visited once and really enjoyed. The point is, your reasons for selecting a tartan are entirely personal.

    In my experience no one ever gets upset if you are wearing their clan tartan, even if you are not a member of the clan. If anything, they are delighted that you thought their tartan attractive enough to want to wear it.

    When it comes to "universal" or "open" tartans, these are generally fashion tartans that do not represent anything (with a few exceptions, such as the Black Watch, which not only represents the military regiment of that name, but is used as a tartan by the Clans Campbell, Munro, and Grant, as well as being considered a universal tartan). There are no more or less restrictions on wearing these than any other tartan, its just that if you are hesitant to wear a tartan that represents something you are not affiliated with, these would be great choices.

    In my opinion, there are only a small number of tartans that I would not choose to wear unless I truly were connected in some way to them. These mostly include tartans that represent a specific occupation of high esteem that I do not want to give the impression I have: Leatherneck for the USMC, or the Clergy tartan, or the Polaris tartan, for instance. Again, though, there are no official restrictions on wearing any of these -- only the fact that many would consider it bad taste.

    Aye,
    Matt

  10. #10
    Mike1's Avatar
    Mike1 is offline
    Retired Forum Adminstrator
    Join Date
    23rd September 04
    Location
    Lafayette, Indiana
    Posts
    1,693
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome
    Remember this. Tartans are representative. They represent clans, families, places, businesses, etc. When you wear a tartan, you are somehow identifying yourself with what that tartan represents.
    Good point, Matt. If you cannot honor the family or group that tartan represents, then don't wear it. The average eye is not going to be able to pick out a particular tartan being associated with a particular family, but there are those that might.

    If you choose to wear such representative clothing, be a good representative.

    Nice to "meet" you, Matt.

    Yours aye,
    Mike

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0