Hard Tartan

**Orvis** · 12th July 05, 05:02 AM

Ciamar a tha siebh,

This is my first posting on this forum. As a living history reenactor who portrays 18th century Highlanders (1745 clansman and slightly later redcoated Highland soldiers), I'm always looking to improve the authenticity of my kit. Right now I'm looking for sources of "hard" tartan, which was widely worn into the 19th century. I've queried a few custom weavers ($$$$), but was wondering if there are still any firms producing this fabric (almost all tartan produced today is "soft" tartan)? I would be looking for a non-clan tartan or early military sett (see James Scarlett's "Origin and Development of Military Tartans") in plant-dye colors, preferably in single-width (27" wide, or thereabouts) so I could sew two lengths together to form a plaid or make into an early philabeg or other garments. Admitedly, this is an unusual request, but any information would be welcome. Thank you for your indulgence.

Slainte

**Bill** · 12th July 05, 06:03 AM

Welcome to our little corner Orvice. I wish I could help you with your question but I can't. We have several good people here who are very well versed and I wouldn't be surprised if they had an answer for you.

Bill

**awoodfellow** · 12th July 05, 05:28 PM

i was not familiar with the term "hard tartan".

http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/b_sample.htm

ambrose

**Woodsheal** · 12th July 05, 08:20 PM

Orvice,
Check with Matt Newsome, a member of this forum and our resident tartan expert!
Which `45 clan group are you with? You can check out mine at the link below in my signature....

**Orvis** · 13th July 05, 06:30 AM

Thanks to all for responding so far.

My books (primarily James Scarlett's works and Isobel Grant's "Highland Folkways") inform me that "hard" fabrics are woven from tightly-spun worsted yarn made from long combed wool fibers. Weavers have told me that the way the cloth is finished (fulled) has something to do with it, too. I've had a chance to examine a sample of hard tartan, and it did have a "hard" rough feel, as opposed to "soft" tartan (made from shorter carded wool fibers), which definitely has a softer gentler feel. Which probably explains why hard tartan has disappeared and soft tartan is universally used today for kilts.

My 1745 living history group is the Appin Historical Society, which operates out of the DC metro area. We participate primarily in living history camps at local (within a couple hours' drive) Scottish/Celtic games, although we do participate in the "Road to London" field event in Pennsylvania each year.

Looking forward to hearing from all y'all.

Slainte,
Gerry

**Woodsheal** · 13th July 05, 07:18 AM

Gerry,
Am very familiar with the Appins: Dan Gilbert, Mara, and the gang! Will see you at Old Bedford on Labor Day weekend....

Does not the modern, tightly machine-woven tartan (as opposed to hand-woven), replicate the "hard" tartan of the 18th C. pretty nearly...?

**meinfs** · 18th July 09, 06:24 AM

Hi Gerry! Glad to see you on here and

**dfmacliam** · 18th July 09, 07:33 AM

If I might ask Matt a question here... please forgive my ignorence... is the kilt you recently had posted for sale.. the tweed in a tartan pattern, is rougher than wool? or is there really no difference in the tweed/ wool comparison?

I find the topic of this thread interesting.. and I would like to see examples of some old military tartans, that actually vary from the more modern ones we see today.

and If I might be so bold.. could you post some pictures of your reenacting.. I find it very interesting..and I have a common interest, but in a slightly different direction, but I enjoy to see the efforts others put into their clothing...

**Chas** · 18th July 09, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by meinfs

Hi Gerry! Glad to see you on here and

Originally Posted by peacekeeper83

If I might ask Matt a question here... please forgive my ignorence... is the kilt you recently had posted for sale.. the tweed in a tartan pattern, is rougher than wool? or is there really no difference in the tweed/ wool comparison?

I find the topic of this thread interesting.. and I would like to see examples of some old military tartans, that actually vary from the more modern ones we see today.
and If I might be so bold.. could you post some pictures of your reenacting.. I find it very interesting..and I have a common interest, but in a slightly different direction, but I enjoy to see the efforts others put into their clothing...

This thread is 5 years old.

::dead::

Regards

Chas