Help me understand utilikilts

[Graham]

This will not be popular among my plain kilted brethren, but I do wonder about a couple of things after looking at the utilikilts site.

1. Why are those kilts often worn so long in most of the photos?
No matter what kind of kilt it is, I believe that it can look so wrong by not adhering to the accepted length of mid kneecap or an inch or so above.
Yet many photos show the kilt made to hang well below the knee.

2. On the website, many of the photos show a kilt that looks so untidy, pleats that need ironing, that don't hang well at all and stick out all over the shop.
Maybe they look better after a bit of wearing in?

I just feel that to promote any product, you have to present it at it's best.
Does the UK site really achieve this?

I'm not down on plain kilts, I have one and have just ordered another.
I'm afraid that this site would not encourage me to buy one.

now please...be nice

[Rigged]

Think of a battered well-worn pair of jeans -- without the crotch.

[Graham]

short and to the point, I like that!:-)

[Archangel]

The first time I saw them at Fergus would not encourage me to buy them. I got the impression the vendors there would sell to any newbie and tell them it was a good fit. Probably, neither knew.
I don't want to get embroiled in a brand war, my impression from other posts is that there seems to be two levels: the mail order custom fit and the commission sales at events. The former will get the customer the proper fit, the latter is a gamble.


I'm looking out the window trying to avoid yard work and thinking of doing it in a kilt. For no price difference and a huge improvement in detail and quality I would go with R-kilts' product.


NB. if the wearer meant to have a longer style kilt, that's fine. Who am I to judge that? My evidence is based on that the utilikilt didn't fit well anywhere else either, and not based on ones known to be ordered/custom fitted.

[arrogcow]

Just finished up my earlier post, and had to reply to this (not a flame I promise).

The first time I saw them at Fergus would not encourage me to buy them. I got the impression the vendors there would sell to any newbie and tell them it was a good fit. Probably, neither knew.
I don't want to get embroiled in a brand war, my impression from other posts is that there seems to be two levels: the mail order custom fit and the commission sales at events. The former will get the customer the proper fit, the latter is a gamble.

As an occasional vendor, I do try and measure each customer accurately, so they know their size. The last step in measuring is putting a kilt on them so they can see what they look like. Many times at festivals we have the right waist size, but only one that is too long or too short. When I get them in front of the miror, I show them, and say that I would go with a different length. Many take my advice and then order from the website. Many decide that they don't care and buy what we have on hand.

There is no comission on sales for any of the workers at a festival. It is out place to try and make customers happy. If making them happy measn walking out with one that is off in length (or waist because the guy thinks he is going to lose the weight), should I really say, "Sorry I can't sell that to you because it doesn't fit right. (BTW UK's are designed to fit on the hips lower than the average pant, so that may be while you didn't think feel they fit right - it takes a litle getting used to - or you can cheat like I do and wear them higher and a little tigher than they are meant to be worn).

As for mail order vs festival sizing. I would get sized at a festival rather than do it youself. If you are wrong with mail order, you get the wrong size kilt. At a festival you know exactly what size you should be when you leave (regardless of what you buy). Measuring is an inexact science, wraping one around you will tell you instantly if you measured right or need to adjust (I have several times measured a guy at say 44" only to find that they really need a 46" when trying on, because of gut/tush size.)

I'm looking out the window trying to avoid yard work and thinking of doing it in a kilt. For no price difference and a huge improvement in detail and quality I would go with R-kilts' product.


NB. if the wearer meant to have a longer style kilt, that's fine. Who am I to judge that? My evidence is based on that the utilikilt didn't fit well anywhere else either, and not based on ones known to be ordered/custom fitted.

R-kilts are about $25 more (the non leather ones - leather is cheaper than UK). But I'm not knocking them. I hope to have a denim R-kilt in the near future, just noting that they do cost more.

Adam

[Archangel]

Just finished up my earlier post, and had to reply to this (not a flame I promise).

As an occasional vendor, I do try and measure each customer accurately, so they know their size. The last step in measuring is putting a kilt on them so they can see what they look like. Many times at festivals we have the right waist size, but only one that is too long or too short. When I get them in front of the miror, I show them, and say that I would go with a different length. Many take my advice and then order from the website. Many decide that they don't care and buy what we have on hand.

There is no comission on sales for any of the workers at a festival. It is out place to try and make customers happy. If making them happy measn walking out with one that is off in length (or waist because the guy thinks he is going to lose the weight), should I really say, "Sorry I can't sell that to you because it doesn't fit right. (BTW UK's are designed to fit on the hips lower than the average pant, so that may be while you didn't think feel they fit right - it takes a litle getting used to - or you can cheat like I do and wear them higher and a little tigher than they are meant to be worn).

As for mail order vs festival sizing. I would get sized at a festival rather than do it youself. If you are wrong with mail order, you get the wrong size kilt. At a festival you know exactly what size you should be when you leave (regardless of what you buy). Measuring is an inexact science, wraping one around you will tell you instantly if you measured right or need to adjust (I have several times measured a guy at say 44" only to find that they really need a 46" when trying on, because of gut/tush size.)


R-kilts are about $25 more (the non leather ones - leather is cheaper than UK). But I'm not knocking them. I hope to have a denim R-kilt in the near future, just noting that they do cost more.

Adam

No offense, I tried to make it clear that this was a very limited exposure to utilikilts. I assumed commission, don't really know why. Of course, the customer is right, and a "bad fit" freely chosen is everybody's right.

(not to argue, but here in Canada R-kilts prices work out better, but I'll double check that. Even so, for that price difference I'd go with Robert's but that's me and it doesn't mean everybody has to follow, really.)

[Rigged]

It depends on what you mean by "bad fit".

What's a bad fit for kilt to wear while working on your car, playing in mud, crawling around on a floor teaching CPR, or sitting in a lawn chair in the middle of the desert watching the impending approach of a 90-mph dust storm?

There are times when neatness doesn't count.

[arrogcow]

No offense, I tried to make it clear that this was a very limited exposure to utilikilts. I assumed commission, don't really know why. Of course, the customer is right, and a "bad fit" freely chosen is everybody's right.

(not to argue, but here in Canada R-kilts prices work out better, but I'll double check that. Even so, for that price difference I'd go with Robert's but that's me and it doesn't mean everybody has to follow, really.)

Definitely no offense. I wasn't trying to get into a shouting match, just clarifying some points.

Didn't know you were in Canada (if peope would put their location in their profile I would know ;) .

But at current exchange rate a UK workmans is still $25 cheaper (I just checked $225 in C Dollars and I used the calculator on R Kilts site) in Canada before any import costs (don't know what they are). However, I do understand wanting an R Kilt. As I said I intend to buy one mostly because I want denim, and UK doesn't make a denim workmans, only duc cloth.

Adam

[arrogcow]

Basically, several things come in to play.

First, UK doesn't use models to show off their kilts. All pics are of actual customers (though there are a few of employees mixed in including many of Steve the founder), in every day situations, so everything is not always ironed and folded perfectally.

Second, as Rigged pointed out, UK's are basically jeans/kakhis, not dress items. While I have known guys that iron jeans, most do not. They are meant to be worked in, played in, hung out in. As a result they can be a little rumpled at times. The first UK was created while Steve was working on his motercycle, I don't think he was worried about being unironed at the time.

Finally on length. Speaking as someone who has sold UK's at festivals, mid kneecap is the target length, same length as I was measured for for my tank in Glasgow at Thomas Gordon and Sons. Now UK only comes in standard lengths so hitting the exact spot is not always possible. I have found that if given the choice most guys go for a little longer than a little shorter (espicially younger guys or first time wearers that are a little nervous in the first place). I don't know the reason, but I suspect it is because shorts that are popular in the US right now also tend to hit just below the knee. I've actually had guys say, its not a traditional, so I can wear it a little longer.

Some of it is just perception of the camera though. Again most pics on the UK site are snap shots. Look at your own pics where the person holding the camera is standing and not really worried about shooting the kilt to make it look its best - instead trying to get a pic of you. The kilt looks a little long. Now look at a pic where the person is kneeling and trying to get a pic of the kilt in all it's glory. The kilt looks the right length.

Adam

[Graham]

Thanks Adam, just to clarify, here is one of the pictures I refer to (stolen from their site).