shillelagh and walking sticks

[Brasilikilt]

Hey all

I'm in the process of making myself an oak shillelagh/thumping stick.
While I was carving it out, I remembered all the different times I have seen kilted men carrying a stick or cane of some sort, usually coming up about chest height, either plain or carved with a fancy knob or other decoration at the end.
I just haven't read about any mention of them on this forum, so my curiosity is aroused.
I see them mostly carried by leaders of pipe/marching bands, but also see them carried very often by those who are dressed formally in full kilted regalia and also by those who are merely out for a walk while kilted.
My question........Is this an accoutrement with origins from back in the days of carrying swords, dirks and sgian dubhs as neccesary defensive weapons, or do gents carry them as more of an accessory to add a touch of class to their outfit?
Do these canes signify a certain rank or class?
If you carry one of these sticks/canes while kilted, does it go by another name?

thanks
Iain

[Bob C]

I think you're talking about a cromach. Here's a description I found from a Clan Campbell site (http://www.ccsna.org/jsep46.htm):

CROMACHS


The long stick with a curved top used by both stockmen and shepherds in Scotland is, on more well dressed occasions such as Highland Games there, used by men with daytime Highland dress. Its use is equally appropriate in North America. The cromach (pron. CROMach, with the `O' as in song) gained popularity in the 20th century and has come into accepted use for the Stewards (or organizers) who run Highland Games in Scotland. But use of the cromach is in no way limited to those in authority. The making of fine cromachs is a craft much admired in Scotland and they are generally made of hazel and sometimes with a horn handle with a carved finial. Some makers bend twigs on the tree and wait years for them to grow thick enough to cut for a cromach with the hook grown in.

There is another style of stick, sometimes seen at Games in North America, which is a twisted or club-like stick. This is properly a shelailagh and is more of Irish than Highland origin and not particularly appropriate to Highlanders unless of `Scots-Irish' ancestry perhaps.

[flyv65]

I had always thought that a shillelagh was not much more than 20 inches or so, and capable of being used in hand or thrown. Then again, my knowledge of this subject isn't voluminous.

Bryan...but I'm willing to learn...

[macwilkin]

I see them mostly carried by leaders of pipe/marching bands...

That is not a walking stick, but a drum major's mace.

Cheers,

Todd

[Dreadbelly]

A Shillelagh is a specially weighted stick made from the knobby root end of Blackthorn. The knobby end is bored out and filled with either molten lead or molten silver, and allowed to harden. The Gaelic name, if I recall correctly, is bata. Shillelagh is actually what the English call them from what I have read. It came from the pen of an English writer.

Traditionally, a Shillelagh is 2/3ths the hight of it's owner. Some are of course longer or shorter based on several factors. The Irish (and Scots) were often to poor to afford swords. Stick fighting was common and deadly. Sherlock Holmes was even said to have been a master of Bata fighting. Some of the better fighters used a style called "Troid de Bata." Two stick fighting. One Shillelagh was longer and used for walking, the other was a short stubby version usually hidden under a coat or a cloak and used for blocking or as two tapper finisher.

In combat, a Shillelagh is held in mid shaft. The weighted end can either be held high or held low, and a good fighter will know how to twirl the knob to whichever stance he is in need of. The bottom part of the shaft is used for blocking and striking the shins. The top part (the knob, which can also be on the bottom keep in mind) isn't swung so much like a club, but rather whipped outward with a flick of the wrist and momentum is allowed to do all of the work. So deadly is a properly made Shillelagh that even a child can deliver bone shattering blows with very little effort and training. If properly made and weighted, and held the right way mid shaft, a Shillelagh is just as, if not more balanced than a well made sword. Recovery from striking a blow is lightning fast, and a skilled user can deliver a flurry of cascading blows that can reduce a foe's bones to splinters. It has been called by some a mace or a club with all of the finer characteristics of a sword.

It should be seen as a symbol of pride for ALL Celtic and Gaelic cultures, as both the Scots and the Irish used them to great effect, especially during the dark years when none were allowed weapons to defend themselves, or could not afford a gentleman's sword. And when one owns a combat Shillelagh, one filled with either molten lead or silver and properly balanced, one should take great care around others as even a gentle love tap can be utterly devistating to the recipient.

Real Shillelaghs are hard to find. The sticks sold to tourists are not even Blackthorn most of the time. And it is very difficult to find a custom made well balanced Shillelagh that has been lead or silver filled. The best Shillelaghs spend a year buried in manure or a peat bog to temper the wood. After a year in manure or peat, they are rubbed in butter and left in a chimney to cure for a while, becomed blackened, and cure. They become as hard and unyielding as stone and are said only to break when their owner does.

I would very much like to have one made. Although, knowing me, I would most likely give somebody a "gentle love tap" with one.

Edit

Oh, forgot to mention. They were also made from oak, ash, and holly.

[James]

Though it is dying out in towns, a gentelman should always carry a stick: common at gatherings are the long shepherds crook type-cromach, and a thumb stick is also popular. Both very practical on the hill, as a walking aid-and for supporting a spotting scope.

The drum major of a band should carry a decorative mace-both for display and instructions above the noise of the band.

James

[Bart_In_A_Kilt]

A Shillelagh is a specially weighted stick made from the knobby root end of Blackthorn. [snip]

Traditionally, a Shillelagh is 2/3ths the hight of it's owner. Some are of course longer or shorter based on several factors. The Irish (and Scots) were often to poor to afford swords. Stick fighting was common and deadly.
Oh, forgot to mention. They were also made from oak, ash, and holly.

Ive shown it before on other posts in this forum, but what the heck... This is my families Blackthorn War Shillelagh. I can get it for special occasions, but it has already been willed to a younger brother.

Its heavy duty.

[Urchurdan]

Thoroughly enjoyed reading this post and all the replies, all the talk about fighting sticks etc, there is another reason for having a CROMACH, a much simpler one, and that is if you are a BODACH like me....(old man)....They quite simply help you get along at times....

[The Thing]

The small fighting Shilleagh's are called Batta as Gaeilge and in English Batton, They would be like getting hit with steal. In my local musuem there are some early Irish faction fighting weapons including a cudgel (another type of Shilleagh) with a knife attached to the end. You'd always see the old boys walking the roads with the Shilleagh which they probably made themselves.

[Skipper1]

http://misticshillelagh.tripod.com/index.html

I think this link has been posted before but I'll put it up again. It may be of interest.