Flag Kilts

[MacWage]

I was wondering about the various thoughts of kilts made with patterns that are based closely upon various flags.

Recently, there have been threads on the Scot saltire and the Confederate "battle flag" (now in lock down jail). In these threads different opinions about the rightness or wrongness of kilts in flag patterns.

Thus far, I have intentionally avoided too literal iterpretations of flags on anythig other than shirts. On kilts, I have leaned toward tartan representations of them instead, such as Confederate, American Bicentenial, Irish national, etc. Thereby, the tartan represents the meaning intended by the flag, but in a much more subtle manner.

As an amatuer vexiologist (studier of flags), I was wondering about different opinions, such as "fine by me" or "seeing flag _______made into a kilt highly offends me", followed by reasoning and rationale for that opinion.

Now gents and lasses, lets try to keep this civil and out of lockdown.

[Kilted KT]

while I think the flags on kilts looks pretty cool ( especially some of the salitre kilts), but I've got reservations about wearing the flag of my country about my waist and sitting on it.

[bubba]

To me it seems disrespectful. Wearing a garment made in the colors of a flag is one thing, but the actual flag pattern just doesn't seem right. In counterpoint, I think it was Ambrose Bierce who wrote that flags were akin to signs that used to appear in vacant lots in London saying "Rubbish May Be Shot Here". In all, it's a tough call these days with standards so different from when I was a kid.

[Livingston]

I have mixed feelings about them. They look great and the planning to get them to come out correctly must be much harder than on a standard tartan. That being said, I don't like the idea of sitting on any national flag. It seems too disrespectful even tho the intentions are not.

[Panache]

Apparently when a character in the 60's movie "Easy Rider" wore a US Flag on the back of his jacket it was considered disrespectful, now days that would be considered patriotic. So this is an issue that goes beyond just kilts.

To me it isn't so much should a flag be worn or not on a kilt (or any other type of clothing for that matter) but HOW it is worn. Is the flag presented in a positve manner? Is it clean? Is it tasteful? Is the wearer wearing it with pride?

I think if one is to wear a representation of a flag as part of one's attire the answer to the above questions must be YES!

Cheers

[auld argonian]

The wearing the flag thing has been controversial to say the least. Abbie Hoffman appeared on the Tonight Show some time back wearing an American Flag shirt...the NBC censors found a way to blur his shirt out when the show aired to sidestep any controversy that might have occured. Years later it seems that wearing the American Flag somehow became socially acceptable...all manner of clothing with stars and stripes motifs became available. The message seemed to be that if you were wearing the Flag as a sign of protest or sarcastically it was a bad thing but if you were wearing it patriotically it was acceptable. Trouble is how do you tell the difference? Too many mixed messages involved for there to be an easy answer. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Nobody really knows where the lines are and when they are being crossed.

I think that it is relatively easy, no matter how cool we think an article of clothing that portrays anyones flag is, to refrain from wearing it. There are lots of shirts and jerseys that portray various national colors...those generally seem, to me, to be pretty acceptable. The problem comes up when the flag is depicted on the bottom half of the outfit...particularly on the area that is "sat upon", so to speak...then, it seems, folks can get a little testy. I remember in the days of my youth that some of the more radical types sewed American Flag patches on the seats of their jeans so that they could demonstrate their disdain for the country...in retrospect it seems like a very adolescent and pointless form of protest, doesn't it? I'm sure that some who see these flag kilts look at it the other way around, as a gesture of support or patriotism but it still seems like there are better ways to demonstrate that.

The Confederate Flag thing is just one of those controversies that may never get resolved...just too much baggage attached to it, just too much unsettled ill feelings. I'm sure, though, that if you announced that you were wearing a CSA tartan kilt you would still have people who would challenge it just because of those old associations. Pity that there seems to be no way to find peace and resolution to a conflict that happened so long ago...I wish that there was...takes a lot of empathy for and among all parties involved.

Best

AA

[Livingston]

Apparently when a character in the 60's movie "Easy Rider" wore a US Flag on the back of his jacket it was considered disrespectful, now days that would be considered patriotic. So this is an issue that goes beyond just kilts.

To me it isn't so much should a flag be worn or not on a kilt (or any other type of clothing for that matter) but HOW it is worn. Is the flag presented in a positve manner? Is it clean? Is it tasteful? Is the wearer wearing it with pride?

I think if one is to wear a representation of a flag as part of one's attire the answer to the above questions must be YES!

Cheers

For me, a country flag on the back/front of a shirt or jacket would be considered patriotic/supportive of that country. The wearing of a representation of a flag under the waist would not. Just my feeling on it and my wife says I can be stubborn at times

[morrison]

Apparently when a character in the 60's movie "Easy Rider" wore a US Flag on the back of his jacket it was considered disrespectful, now days that would be considered patriotic. ...

I'm not certain about exactly what Mr. Fonda had intended when he donned the stars and stripes in the movie. What I think I remember is its symbolism of an everyday rebel biker whom happens to also be a free man. Free to go about as he will and express himself with impunity, including wearing what at the time was a statement of "in your face" Americanism. I recall he was familiarly referred to as Cap't America. Don't forget, their journey was financed by a cocaine deal.

About flag wearing being patriotic nowadays...? My intention the inclusion of each of these symbols is as an example of design rather than allegiance. Whether it is the Union Jack, Stars & Stripes, Swastica, Rising Sun, Hammer & Sickle, Maltese Cross, Fleur-de-lis or spinning glitter I believe that one should be free in the display of the national motif and not display the actual form of the flag in a disrespectful manner. Also, I ought to be tolerant of ones design until I'm absolutely certain of that ones intent, and still not overreact, but respond thoughtfully and without inflammation. I think flag design wearing is more of a self-centric nationalistic portrayal or gesturing. Not quite the same as nationalistic patriotism imbued in immutable loyalty and reverence to the blood of soldiers, brothers, sisters, friends, children, mothers and fathers, though near enough to be interchangeable.

I see flag designer wearing as one taking a lazy advantage with a national symbol of unity, sovereignty. That is not wrong. It is indeed quite right, althought with the political cheap shots available to the designer, it becomes questionable and goes to the fringes of "the left and right," and is shunned by mainstream designers and marketers. (But not by me!) The choosing of colors isn't difficult. The thoughtful arranging of those colors can elicit a plethora of responses in a spectrum of emotions from those affected. I wear a small pin of my flag on my hat in my zeal to show anyone who looks that that is my country.

Tartans in the flag motif are a breed of their own. I keep in mind the fact that tartan has distinguishing markings. It was made possible by the careful alignment of colors and was used for identifying family, friend or foe.

By the way, the guy who shot Wyatt and Billy was going on about the hair length on his victims.
WOW! This is a rather expansive topic. Hope it stays level, hot and in fair territory.

[Ne Oublie]

while I think the flags on kilts looks pretty cool ( especially some of the salitre kilts), but I've got reservations about wearing the flag of my country about my waist and sitting on it.

HERE! HERE! I'm of the same thought

[beloitpiper]

I think national tartans were made so we wouldn't have to argue about this. I believe that if somebody wants to honor their country, region, state, city, etc. they should wear the tartan associated with it and keep the flag where it belongs: flying proudly at the top of the mast.

I do admire the skill required to put a flag in pleats, but I personally do not agree that it should be worn.