Barclay, Davis & Gunn

[Dirk Skene]

While at the 11th Tennessee Games I (a Gunn) met fellow Xmarks member Heathbar (a Barclay). He & I noticed that our tartans were very similar. Both were a basic green & blue w/subtle differences. Our clan badge design was exactly the same. We also noticed that our clan slogans were similar. His clan slogan is "Either action or death". Mine is "Either peace or war". With the martial culture of the Scots action and war is surely same thing. Is there a connection between Barclay and Gunn?

I went a few clan tents down and spoke to the nice, friendly folks at the Davidson tent because I was gathering information for a co-worker. We both noticed that our tartans were similar.

Now I have 3 questions for the experts among us.
1) Is there any connection between Barclay and Gunn?
2) Is there any between Davidson and Gunn?
3) Does Gunn somehow connect Barclay and Davidson?

[Mike1]

I've not run across anything to suggest there was a tie between the Gunns and Barclays, but I suppose anything is possible.

The historic, geographical locations of the two families is fairly well separated, with the Gunns in Caithness and the Barclays in Kincardineshire and Aberdeenshire.

As for tartan similarities, have you noticed how close the Barclay Dress tartan is to the MacLeod Dress?

Our clan badge design was exactly the same.

The Gunn badge depicts a right hand holding a sword, whereas the Barclay badge is a right hand holding a dagger. This wouldn't tend to indicate a link between the two, as there are many families that had badges more alike. The Wallace badge, for instance, is an armored arm holding a sword.

This certainly doesn't mean there was/is absolutely no connection between the two families, but that is where the fun comes in. You get to start digging around to see what ties were in place. The more you study, the more you are bound to learn. There will be times that you think you are up against a wall and then a connection will be found that will lead you around the obstacle.

Enjoy your hunt!

[macwilkin]

The Gunns traditional lands are in Caithness, and the clan has been associated more with the Sinclairs, Mackays and Keiths, the latter being in a particularly bloody feud over land claims. The Barclays were Norman in origin, and the Davidsons have ties to the Comyns (my clan, the Cummings) and the Clan Chattan Confederation. Please note that this is a very brief summary of these three clan's history and should not be taken as "complete".

I wouldn't look for a tie between clans because of the tartans, since the clan tartan is a relatively modern innovation (early 19th century) and many clans "share" tartans with little or no connection. Matt Newsome has written an article about this that should help you:

http://www.albanach.org/tartanname.htm

The same with the motto -- many armigers share mottos or even the crest (the badge inside the buckle-and-strap) with no connection or tie. Alliances, usually through marriage, might be displayed on the arms, as in the case of our Chiefs, the Gordon-Cummings, who married into the House of Gordon.

Matt, anything you want to add to this? Have I missed something?

Cheers,

Todd

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I would only add that to the untrained eye (by which I simply mean one that isn't used to looking critically at tartan design) a lot of tartans look very similar simply because they use the same colors. This may lead one to beleive there is a connection when in fact there isn't any.

For example, a lot of people think that the MacLean of Duart tartan looks just like the Royal Stewart. They are both red-based tartans, and since most people are familiar with the red Royal Stewart, they tend to associate any red-based tartan with that one.

In the case of Gunn and Barclay hunting, the basic colors are blue and green with a little red. But this is also true of hundreds of other tartans. Which is why you yhought Davidson so similar.

If you look past the colors, though, to the design itself, you'll see that Davidson really has little in common with these other two. Barclay and Gunn do have certain similarities. Both have equal amounts of green and blue, with the green bisected by a red line, and the blue bisected by a green line. But the Gunn also separates the green and blue portion with a wide section of black.

Gunn actually has more in common with Mackay, and this makes sense as the clans Gunn and Mackay were neighbors. In this case, I think the similarities between Gunn and Barclay hunting are a coincidence. I think in the case of Barclay, the hunting is a simple color change of the more popular Barclay Dress tartan, which is the same design, only in yellow and black. Both come from the Vestiarium Scoticum, which was published in 1842. Most of the tartan designs in that book are very simple grid-like patterns, the result of them being designed by artists drawing on a page rather than weaving in cloth.

Aye,
Matt

[Tattoo Bradley]

Henderson at Caithness is a Sept of Gunn. And, I've also read, that the Henderson and Davidson tartans were "submitted" or "picked" or what-have-you at the same time... there is a very clear similarity in the Henderson/Davidson tartans.

[HeathBar]

When I saw Dirkskene's badge there was some similarity between them. To the untrained eye, they might look to be the same. I've seen enough Barclay badges to know that the manufacturer of that badge has taken some artistic liberties. Therefore a Barclay badge from one manufacturer might look similar to a Gunn badge from a different manufacturer I had never really noticed the Gunn badge or it similarities before. I was curious as to the origin of the clan crest or the cheif's badge. Who designed them?

[Scott Gilmore]

... Gunn actually has more in common with Mackay, and this makes sense as the clans Gunn and Mackay were neighbors. ...

Taking this thought a step further, clan Mackay tartan has served as the basis for at least one other clan tartan, and if you were to just look at a map, it might not make much sense either. Remember, Mackay is a Scottish mainland (Sutherland) clan.

Look at the similarity between these two tartans.
. . .
. . . . . . Mackay . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Morrison

The Morrison is nothing more than the Mackay tartan replicated faithfully, but with a red central tram line. Considering that clan Morrison is generally thought of as an Outer Hebridean clan, most people aren't aware of the close ties that existed between the two since the MacLeods chased the Morrisons off of Lewis a few hundred years ago (tribal war -- them #@%$! MacLeods!).

I've heard conjecture that this is because the same weavers made cloth for both clans and all sorts of other nonsense. In fact, the Morrison tartan was chosen very deliberately at the beginning of the twentieth century at a time when no one knew what tartan clan Morrison wore back before the Proscription Act of 1746. Because of their close ties, the Morrison tartan was based on the Mackay tartan, which was well known.

Later, while renovating a house on Lewis, a bible dated 1747 inscribed with the name Morrison was found bricked in behind a chimney. It was wrapped in this tartan:



Since then another sample of Morrison tartan was found dating from 1745. It is almost, but not exactly identical to the red-based example shown above (it had only one central green tram line, not two).

The point is that sometimes even when there are similarities between tartans, it takes some research to find out whether it's anything more than incidental, and if not, the real reasons.

One other lesson from all this is that back when people actually wore locally woven tartan cloth every day, they probably didn't always worry that the tartan was exactly just so. "EEK, your tartan is missing a tram line!" ... swoon ...

Regards,
Scott Gilmore

[Tattoo Bradley]

Taking this thought a step further, clan Mackay tartan has served as the basis for at least one other clan tartan, and if you were to just look at a map, it might not make much sense either. Remember, Mackay is a Scottish mainland (Sutherland) clan.

Look at the similarity between these two tartans.
. . .
. . . . . . Mackay . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Morrison

The Morrison is nothing more than the Mackay tartan replicated faithfully, but with a red central tram line. Considering that clan Morrison is generally thought of as an Outer Hebridean clan, most people aren't aware of the close ties that existed between the two since the MacLeods chased the Morrisons off of Lewis a few hundred years ago (tribal war -- them #@%$! MacLeods!).

I've heard conjecture that this is because the same weavers made cloth for both clans and all sorts of other nonsense. In fact, the Morrison tartan was chosen very deliberately at the beginning of the twentieth century at a time when no one knew what tartan clan Morrison wore back before the Proscription Act of 1746. Because of their close ties, the Morrison tartan was based on the Mackay tartan, which was well known.

Later, while renovating a house on Lewis, a bible dated 1747 inscribed with the name Morrison was found bricked in behind a chimney. It was wrapped in this tartan:



Since then another sample of Morrison tartan was found dating from 1745. It is almost, but not exactly identical to the red-based example shown above (it had only one central green tram line, not two).

The point is that sometimes even when there are similarities between tartans, it takes some research to find out whether it's anything more than incidental, and if not, the real reasons.

One other lesson from all this is that back when people actually wore locally woven tartan cloth every day, they probably didn't always worry that the tartan was exactly just so. "EEK, your tartan is missing a tram line!" ... swoon ...

Regards,
Scott Gilmore

That Morrison red is still on my wish list, Scott.

[Oatmeal Savage]

***, that is a gorgeous tartan.

Kevin

That Morrison red is still on my wish list, Scott.

[Dirk Skene]

Wow!
I never expected so many replys so quickly.

I have only recently been interested in such things and I am fortunate to have my on-line friends here at "Xmarks". Thanks for all of the replys. You guys are great