A very good read to get your brain a thinking.

[Dreadbelly]

Clickity here to give your brain something to think about.

After reading that, I think I could see a different future ahead for those that know about all of the 'old fashioned' stuff like sewing and clothing creation, and crocheting hats and other goods, and farming, and all those other little things that seem to have fallen to the way side. Reading about the need for theatrical folk, musical folk, artsy folk, made me think of Panache and some of the other folk here that are in to this sort of thing and play music. All that talk about canned entertainment got me thinking. There are a lot of renaissance men (and women) on this board, and after reading, I gained a bit more appreciation for you folks. Cheese makers and beer brewers, And for everybody that can make something for themselves with out having to go to the local Mao-Mart and buy it.

Please, do take time to read and discuss, I am practically slavering to think of the conversation that could come from this.

[turpin]

OK, this guy is a major Luddite. He's predicting the end of the industrial age and a return of the Agrarian society. I don't believe that will happen, at least not to the extent he is predicting. Human ingenuity will inevitably find a way around the very real problems presented in the article. Yes, more efficient means of transportation will become commonplace, but cars will remain, and become more efficient or morph into non-combustion based powertrains.

He's predicting a decline in electronic entertainment in favor of more live performances. I think he sees it like Pa Ingalls in Little House On The Prairie, playing the fiddle at night for Ma and the girls to take their minds off the big emptiness out there.

Sorry, I just don't buy off on the depth of change he's predicting.

[Dreadbelly]

OK, this guy is a major Luddite. He's predicting the end of the industrial age and a return of the Agrarian society. I don't believe that will happen, at least not to the extent he is predicting. Human ingenuity will inevitably find a way around the very real problems presented in the article. Yes, more efficient means of transportation will become commonplace, but cars will remain, and become more efficient or morph into non-combustion based powertrains.

He's predicting a decline in electronic entertainment in favor of more live performances. I think he sees it like Pa Ingalls in Little House On The Prairie, playing the fiddle at night for Ma and the girls to take their minds off the big emptiness out there.

Sorry, I just don't buy off on the depth of change he's predicting.

I am not so sure I do either, but I do see big changes. I read this book called "The Death of Suburbia" or something like that and the economic factors involved, it was extremely well presented. For a lot of people, it will be like going back to the dark ages because things will become so expensive for people living in the suburbs living on something called comfort dependance.

America has forgotten how to do a lot of things. Our entire manufacturing base is in China and other places now. We're due for a wake up call soon.

[bubba]

Essentially he's predicting a return of the Dark Ages and given the various fanaticisms today and the oil situation I wouldn't rule that out entirely although I think it somewhat unlikely. On the other hand, I think a return to a more locally based economy wouldn't be a bad thing either along with rebuilding our industrial infrastructure so we'd be far less dependent on imports. As far as energy, technology has the potential to provide new sources that aren't dependent on nonrenewable sources. In the long run the runaway consumerism will decline. I suspect he's directionally correct if a bit extreme.

[Dreadbelly]

There was this other thing I read, I can't think of the title, but it was somebody's doctoral thesis online somewhere, talking about fuel dependance. When the oil is either gone, or the middle east politics and economy is to unstable, there is a way to press coal in to a form of gasoline. (Like the Nazis did) America's coal economy would revive, we have a LOT of coal... But because the workers would demand higher and higher wages, and the cost of refining the coal in to fuel to power all of the cars and trucks and our shipping industry, the whole supply and demand thing, based on projected trends and a whole bunch of stuff I can't possibly understand, it showed that only the upper middle class and beyond would be able to afford fuel. Everybody else would be screwed, and the classes would suffer a major shake up, as where people had been previously wealthy under the old economy would become flat broke.

The thesis was a good read... Hundreds of pages. If American workers had to produce goods again, and pick all of our own food, and manufacture our own stuff, prices would skyrocket to all time highs because of 'America's Living Wage' situation and workers demanding higher and higher paychecks to keep up with the cost of living in this consumer plantation. Television sets would cost thousands of dollars more if made here in America rather than an Asian sweatshop... Companies like Wal Mart would collapse because the high cost of low prices would kill them. A pint of strawberries would be a lux item because of the American workers out in the fields picking them would have to have a living wage, meaning the cost of food would have to go way, way up, meaning wages would have to be even higher to keep up with the cost increases.

I could see how the conditions for total collapse could come about.

Either way, no matter the outcome of what may happen, thinking about this increases my respect for people that can do it themselves.

[Mike1]

Let us remember that socio-economics is a very thin line away from political discussion. And we are watching, so gang wary.

[bubba]

Yeah Mike, I'm avoiding the political like the plague.Politics might influence how things come about in this case, but not what is likely to happen.

[Dreadbelly]

For me, I gained an appreciation for the do it yer selfers around here. We need more of that.

Edit.

A better question...

If society fell, so to speak, how long do you think pants would last? Serious question. All of the complex machinery involved for cotton production and stuff.

Wool can be grown on the hoof, and the source of wool can be eaten. Wool can be milled easily enough. I'd guess that one could make wool pants, but let's face it, wool kilts are so much more practical all things considered, and in some ways, easier to produce. (Well, some types of kilts)

A return to simpler times would mean a return of simpler clothing, right?

[Erisianmonkey]

I'm treading lightly here myself, but I will say this. While I disagree with the article, I do think more people need to get their stuff together. I believe Robert A. Heinlein put it best when he wrote, "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

That's my $.02. Over and out.