what makes metal, metal........

**Dreadbelly** · 26th March 07, 07:35 PM

The moment you put metal in to catagories, it is no longer metal. It is commercialised prepackaged formulated hard pop.

Real metal died in the 80s. Nu-Metal came about in the 90s because studio execs wanted to appeal to the vacuum that the grunge movement left behind.

**cloves** · 26th March 07, 07:40 PM

i work at a cd store...and man that metal from the 80's....ain't metal at all compared to the scary stuff out there today. There is a whole new genre of music called "extreme metal." Within that there are sub forms, death metal, black metal, thrash metal, d-beat, drone and the list goes on. I can't tell which is which, but appaerntly to real fans of the style, they can tell what's what just by listening to the tones, tempo, lyrics and so on.

**LK-13** · 26th March 07, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by cloves

i work at a cd store...and man that metal from the 80's....ain't metal at all compared to the scary stuff out there today. There is a whole new genre of music called "extreme metal." Within that there are sub forms, death metal, black metal, thrash metal, d-beat, drone and the list goes on. I can't tell which is which, but appaerntly to real fans of the style, they can tell what's what just by listening to the tones, tempo, lyrics and so on.

I dare you to say that to Lemmi Von Killmister!!

:soda:

"you know I'm going to loose
and gamblin' is for fools
but,
that's the way i like it baby
i don't want to live forever!!"

**Dreadbelly** · 26th March 07, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by LK-13

I dare you to say that to Lemmi Von Killmister!!

:soda:

"you know I'm going to loose
and gamblin' is for fools
but,
that's the way i like it baby
i don't want to live forever!!"

The Ace of Spades... The Ace of Spades...

"Welcome to Hell child. We listen to metal."

**Dreadbelly** · 26th March 07, 07:55 PM

I rest my case. The stuff today is not metal. It is decended from metal, no doubt, and some of it is quite good. It is just not metal. Metal began in the 60s (Arguably) gained substance in the 70s, as well as losing its soul with stadium rock, and fizzled out in the 80s. The moment the term "Hair Metal" was coined, the movement died. Completely. Grunge came along and brought back the best of punk and metal from the 70s in hybrid form. And the moment it was lept upon and commercialised, it died to... Right about the same time Kurt had his brains blown out.

Spinal Tap was kind of the nail in the coffin for metal. At that point, self parody was just about all that was left. It had become absurd and bloated. Execs were labeling it and it was coming out in neat little prepackaged apps designed to appeal to various social cliques in clean and tidy formulated for success packages.

This one goes to 11

**bunchdescendant** · 27th March 07, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Dreadbelly

I rest my case. The stuff today is not metal. It is decended from metal, no doubt, and some of it is quite good. It is just not metal. Metal began in the 60s (Arguably) gained substance in the 70s, as well as losing its soul with stadium rock, and fizzled out in the 80s. The moment the term "Hair Metal" was coined, the movement died. Completely. Grunge came along and brought back the best of punk and metal from the 70s in hybrid form. And the moment it was lept upon and commercialised, it died to... Right about the same time Kurt had his brains blown out.

Spinal Tap was kind of the nail in the coffin for metal. At that point, self parody was just about all that was left. It had become absurd and bloated. Execs were labeling it and it was coming out in neat little prepackaged apps designed to appeal to various social cliques in clean and tidy formulated for success packages.

This one goes to 11

"Don't touch it! No! don't even look at it!"

LOL! I had a friend that recently relabeled his Fender Twin amp so it had an '11' setting! We played in a garage metal band in the late 70's (The Atomic Monks). It's a good way to lose your hearing!

I have to agree that metal is dead. Long Live Metal!!

***starts thrashing on his Les Paul copy with his amp turned up to 'kill'***

Ray

**cloves** · 26th March 07, 08:06 PM

I don't get it...why exactly isn't the stuff today considered metal to you?
er...let me rephrase..."What makes metal, metal?"

**Dreadbelly** · 26th March 07, 08:15 PM

Because the stuff today isn't metal... It is decended from metal.

Look at it this way. I have Sicilian blood. But I wasn't born in Sicily. I am decended from Sicilians, but I am not a Sicilian. From Sicily.

Nu-Metal is much the same. Decended from metal, but metal it is not. The moment you have to catagorise it, it is no longer metal. Stuff now is a completely different beast. Some good, some bad, but the moment somebody calls it death metal, or grind metal, or speed metal, it is no longer metal. It is a Sicilian American. Or something to that effect. However, adding a title to it automatically makes it self mockery and parody. (See Spinal Tap) Metal was hardcore. Parody or self mockery is something you point your finger at and laugh. People seem to forget that metal died, so the joke really is on them.

You can't dust for vomit.

**Nanook** · 27th March 07, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Dreadbelly

Real metal died in the 80s. Nu-Metal came about in the 90s because studio execs wanted to appeal to the vacuum that the grunge movement left behind.

Metal never existed beyond its function as marketing gag. 1970s Metal? That was the crap at Gazzari's and a load of unhip teenies from the Valley...
What great "classic metal" bands do you suggest? Black Sabbath? A wannabe Jazz band that got enticed by money. Led Zeppelin? Same story.. with the genes of the Yardbirds and The Who. Deep Purple? I remember Jon Lord.. also a background in jazz and even at the height of Deep Purple an interest more in Modern Composition than in Pop which led in the late 1960s to some pop-classical fusion attempts.. Ritchie Blackmore? Rainbow--- named after also my then time haunt on the Strip.. Before even these bands went to the mystery graveyard, the hip $ound was glitter.. by this time with their lights browned out.. With the execs pumping money like there was no tomorrow to sell Bowie to a naive public.. and it worked.. Punk did not follow metal.. John Lyndon wanted to sound like the Ramones.. and their riffs follow the tracks to Iggy Pop and New York Dolls.. really glam and glitter in the gutter..
There was, of course, a whole scene of "metal" in the East Bloc.. I remember hanging out in camping grounds with intellectual "freaks" from all over Eastern Europe listing to forbidden music (recall Charter 77) and performance.. Their inspiration was not any of these bands but Zapa (early Zapa and Captain Beefheart) and Warhol (Velvet Underground).

**cloves** · 27th March 07, 05:16 PM

ok...Dread I need you to be even more specific if you can. I need to know what your criteria for something to be considered metal is.
What is it that makes Deep Purple, Zep, Sabbath or BOC metal.

you said, grinding riffs, doomsday whistle etc....

I think if you listen to some dark norwegian black metal, or some drone, you definately feel a sense of impending doom. In fact, with the tuned down guitars, I dare say that it makes the above mentioned bands sound weak in comparison. It's certainly not my cup of tea, but I can't deny that it's terrifying.

To me, art is truly subjective. While I may not "get it." It doesn't make it any less valid.
I liken it to those trad kilt wearers who say that UK's or AK's aren't kilts. They are decended from trad kilts, but it doesn't make them any less a kilt.
they still have the characterisitcs that define the word kilt.

So if metal is meant to be loud, agressive, bombastist......then I think today's metal is no less metal than that of yester year.