Kilt sample Photos

**Kilted-Marine** · 27th July 07, 09:53 PM

I have put a new website page up with actually pictures of many of the kilts we offer. I am missing a few but will get them up as soon as possible.
notice the "Hunting Stewart" large Sett...we ordered hunting stewart from a new vendor...

www.thefrugalcorner.com/samples.htm

also check out the Douglas Blue - loks something like the clark but less stripes

**Shriner** · 27th July 07, 11:20 PM

Mark,

Very nice, I like that Douglas Blue and the Black kilts.

John

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 28th July 07, 04:37 AM

It's good to actually be able to see what you'll be getting before you buy. I noticed a few things about your tartans, I hope you don't mind some comments.

On a different thread, someone was asking about the size of the sett on your Black Watch tartan, and you replied that it was 8". When I read this, I thought to myself that that was a bit small, as the Black Watch tartan has a very large sett. However, now I see why. Your "Black Watch" isn't really the Black Watch tartan. It's only half the Black Watch sett.

In the actual Black Watch tartan, evey other blue portion of the tartan alternates between a single pair of black lines and a double pair of black lines. Your version only has a single pair of black lines on every blue field, making the tartan only half as big. If I'm not mistaken, the "Black Watch" kilts from Stillwater have the same problem.

So it's not truly the Black Watch tartan (though it's not any other tartan, either). You might want to call it something like "Black Watch, abbreviated sett" or something.

Also, what you call "MacKenzie Modern" is not a MacKenzie tartan. It's hard to tell in the photo if the light color stripe is white or yellow. If it is yellow it is the MacLeod of Harris (aka Hunting MacLeod). If it is white, which I assume it is, then I don't think it's a named design.

It looks like the same mistake was made as with the Black Watch tartan. Only half the MacKenzie sett was actually used. Beneath that photo, what you call "Seaforth of MacKenzie", is the actual MacKenzie tartan. It's based on the Black Watch, with red and white lines added. This tartan should either be called MacKenzie, 78th Regiment, or MacKenzie of Seaforth. (The 72nd Regiment was raised by the last Earl of Seaforth and was amalgamated into the 78th in 1881). In any case, the name "Seafoth of MacKenzie" is not accurate.

Lastly, the Pride of Scotland pattern is a design owne by McColls of Aberdeen and is woven exclusively for them by Lochcarron woolen mills. Just letting you know as I've heard through the grape-vine that MacColls is attempting to crack down on others using their proprietary designs. You may very well have an agreement with McColls, I don't know. All I know this has been a problem for them in the past. Lots of tartan companies have their own house designs, and they have a right to be protective of their assets. Just a head's up!

~M

**sirdaniel1975** · 28th July 07, 05:33 AM

Frugal Corner,

I hope by looking at this picture you can see what Matt was talking about the Black Watch tartan. The alternating single sett of double black stripes and the double sett of double black stripes.

9 yrs ago: I had bought a belted plaid from Chivalry Sports that was supposed to be in the Black Watch tartan. Matt took one look at it and said, "That's not Black Watch tartan!" As it turns out, he was obviously right.

Here's the MacKenzie... I think what you sell is probably MacKenzie.

Here's the pride of Scotland...

**Shriner** · 28th July 07, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

In the actual Black Watch tartan...

Also, what you call "MacKenzie Modern"...

Lastly, the Pride of Scotland pattern...

~M

Mat,

You sound very knowledgeable of these things, have you ever thought about applying, working in or opening some type of a Kilt Business or Museum. HaHaHa

Thank you for the lesson this morning.

John

**sirdaniel1975** · 28th July 07, 07:26 AM

Not to beat this like a dead horse... but just in case folks could not grasp what Matt was trying to point out about the Black Watch tartan, I decided to have some fun microsoft paint.

I actually used a lighter shaded version (Campbell) to help demonstrate the point.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 28th July 07, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

So it's not truly the Black Watch tartan (though it's not any other tartan, either). You might want to call it something like "Black Watch, abbreviated sett" or something.

Actually, I have to correct myself here. There is a recorded version of the Black Watch tartan with this "abbreviated sett." I don't know if it is in the on-line version of the ITI or not, but it's number 12, recorded under the name "Cambpell, the 42nd." It was illustrated in Kenneth Macleay's book Highlanders of Scotland in 1870.

Now, it very well could have been an error in Macleay's illustration and not representative of actual woven cloth. Who knows? The point here is that it is a recorded variation, although still not the usual Black Watch sett that people would expect.

Maybe you can call it "42nd tartan, Macleay variant," or some such....
~M

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 28th July 07, 07:35 AM

By the way, thanks, Daniel, for the visual aids! You put much more time into it than I have the energy to! :-)

M

**sirdaniel1975** · 28th July 07, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

Actually, I have to correct myself here. There is a recorded version of the Black Watch tartan with this "abbreviated sett." I don't know if it is in the on-line version of the ITI or not, but it's number 12, recorded under the name "Cambpell, the 42nd." It was illustrated in Kenneth Macleay's book Highlanders of Scotland in 1870.

Now, it very well could have been an error in Macleay's illustration and not representative of actual woven cloth. Who knows? The point here is that it is a recorded variation, although still not the usual Black Watch sett that people would expect.

Maybe you can call it "42nd tartan, Macleay variant," or some such....
~M

Here's the version you're talking about.

Campbell, the 42nd Regimental Tartan WR12

Matt, my pleasure to help..

Daniel

**MacWage** · 29th July 07, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

Actually, I have to correct myself here. There is a recorded version of the Black Watch tartan with this "abbreviated sett." I don't know if it is in the on-line version of the ITI or not, but it's number 12, recorded under the name "Cambpell, the 42nd." It was illustrated in Kenneth Macleay's book Highlanders of Scotland in 1870.

Now, it very well could have been an error in Macleay's illustration and not representative of actual woven cloth. Who knows? The point here is that it is a recorded variation, although still not the usual Black Watch sett that people would expect.

Maybe you can call it "42nd tartan, Macleay variant," or some such....
~M

I've also heard it simply called "42nd," I took note as my first kilt was in this tartan (supposed to be Black Watch and bought from a reenactment supply store that supplied many "redcoat" groups). It wasn't until making the actual kilt I noticed the stripe differences. I did some research to see what I could find on the pattern and Matt is DEAD ON (as one should expect).