Interesting email from an Irish fellow about Irish kilts.

[Mr. Kilt]

I received a most interesting email from an Irish fellow this morning. I assume he visited my website.

I sent him a polite reply, but I thought I'd share the email with the Xmarks rabble to get their thoughts. I've left his name out for privacy.

Hi Alan,

I am from Co. Armagh, Ireland. I am staying with family in Ohio and work in an Irish Pub. About once a month I meet some Plastic Paddy (*1) who is wearing a Kilt. This individual claimed it to be Irish. I reluctantly informed him that In present day Ireland the kilt is still seen very much as being 100% Scottish, and the current "crop of county" and district tartans are unknown in Ireland, having been designed in Scotland, Manufactured in Scotland and marketed primarily with the Irish-American market in mind.... because lets face it.... they eat that sh*t up, and i must emphasise that it is sh*t. As they have neither been designed or manufactured in Ireland, Basically... an Irish Kilt, is'nt.

If you like wearing a kilt for the sake of wearing one, (I imagine this is the case)... Fair enough. Its just not to be confused as being the tiniest bit Irish. That would be mis-information. Take a trip over, ask an actual Irishman, then wait for the laughter.

Kind regards

****

*1) A 'Plastic Paddy' allegedly knows little of actual Irish culture, but asserts their identity, claiming it to be Irish. A plastic paddy retains a strong sense of Irish cultural identity despite not having been born in Ireland, ever visited there or being of only partial (if any) Irish descent; generally used in referance to Irish-English or Irish-Americans. Percieved as irritating poseurs by Irish nationals.

[Archangel]

Oh dear, I have a feeling he's pretty close to the truth of it.

[Casper]

Well, at least he remained polite... he is, for the most part, correct though. Irish nationals despise the 'Plastic Paddy' attitude in the US (hence why the world's largest St. Pat's festival is in NYC).

The only way I can claim to have an Irish heritage and still wear a kilt is that my family is from Northern Ireland (as is the gentleman who wrote that letter), and are of Ulster-Scots descent. Even taking THAT into account, kilts still aren't that common as most of the Scots that came over during the Ulster Plantation were from the lowlands, and therefore were more like to consider themselves British than kilt-wearing highlanders. That being said, the Ulster-Scots population in NI still have highland festivals with games, highland dancing, pipe bands, etc.

[Paul]

Well, at least he remained polite... he is, for the most part, correct though. Irish nationals despise the 'Plastic Paddy' attitude in the US (hence why the world's largest St. Pat's festival is in NYC).

The only way I can claim to have an Irish heritage and still wear a kilt is that my family is from Northern Ireland (as is the gentleman who wrote that letter), and are of Ulster-Scots descent. Even taking THAT into account, kilts still aren't that common as most of the Scots that came over during the Ulster Plantation were from the lowlands, and therefore were more like to consider themselves British than kilt-wearing highlanders. That being said, the Ulster-Scots population in NI still have highland festivals with games, highland dancing, pipe bands, etc.

I doubt that many of them knew what "British" even meant as this was in 1600 - before the Union of Paliaments

[PGH]

I doubt that many of them knew what "British" even meant as this was in 1600 - before the Union of Paliaments

I agree with your sentiment, but as a bit of trivia the term "Great Britain" was coined by King James VI/I around 1604 after the crowns were united.

[Paul]

I agree with your sentiment, but as a bit of trivia the term "Great Britain" was coined by King James VI/I around 1604 after the crowns were united.

True. But very few people in all of Scotland, England and Wales considered themselves British - as the term was never really used widely until the Scottish parliament was defunct.
The main reason for the plantations was religion... not nationality.

[demobud]

I will have to confess to ignorance as to the origins of kilt/Ireland connections, but I was under the impression that some of the Irish Regiments of the British Army did wear a kilt. Of course this may further explain the average Irishman's disdain for the garment...

I do take umbrage though at his contempt for Irish-Americans or Irish-English or Irish-whatever; what is the harm in someone wanting to have a link to his or her past? I think, especially in the case of Americans, it is a way for folks to broaden their world view and maybe realize that we (America) are not the only ones on the globe.
Just my two cents.

[auld argonian]

Living in Chicago in predominately Irish-American neighborhoods, I could easily write my dissertation on this subject.

I have to tell you, when I've spoken to folks who are actually from Ireland and the subject of some of these overly demonstrative Irish-Americans comes up, "Plastic Paddy" is the NICEST term that I've ever heard one of them use.

I am of Irish descent as well as the Scottish and Polish but I'm not one of the crowd running around screaming Erin Gu Bragh on March 17. I understand that the Southie neighborhood of Boston is about equal to some of the Irish-American neighborhoods hereabouts. I'm all for taking pride in the accomplishments of my ancestors and draw inspiration from my family's past but that's a very personal thing to me and though I've gone over to the kilted side and have come to enjoy Highland Games and Fests and have developed a wider interest in Celtic Music from all of its sources, I still try to keep a sense of proportion and deal with the reality of things and not some Celtic Fantasy that sounds colorful but is based on bad history.

I did mention the Irish County tartans to someone at the Celtic Fest last week and I did say as an aside that they come from the Scottish mills so who's making money on this idea, eh?

I used to have after-work beers with a fella who was a representative of an Irish tourist association. What a business! They can have as much disdain for those Plastic Paddy's as they want but if they lost their tourist business, they'd be crying. We tend to forget the percentage of the net that tourism gives to a city or a country...in New York City it is regarded as the second most profitable business in the city...Wall Street is number one.

From my perspective, I find that I'm often dealing with some trans-generational defense mechanisms that evolved from the time when the Irish came to this country and were regarded as the lowest of the low. I'm sure that there are common characteristics that occur in all sub-cultures of displaced people...whether displaced by war, politics or economic factors. One of these characteristics that the diaspora seem to have (and I've seen this in several ethnic groups) is an antique and unrealistic idea of what the current conditions are in the "homeland".

Sorry if these things elicit feeling of such disdain from the Native Irish...but who's worse? Sounds like both groups could stand to sit down and share a "reality sandwich" and a cup of tea.

Best

AA

[Zardoz]

http://www.somebody.to/irishkiltclub.htm

[MacWage]

http://www.somebody.to/irishkiltclub.htm

From that site:
"-Last updated 15/2/04-"

Highly Active, that one is.