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29th November 07, 10:09 PM
#1
Military Pleats?
What a treat to find this site. I'm in my third kilt now. Some stories there, eh?
But seriously. For a re-enactor portrayal, I'm working up an impression as a WW2 Highland Regiment rifleman, specifically the 4th Battalion Queens Own Cameron Highlanders, 152nd Brigade of Infantry, 51st Highland Division, British Expeditionary Force, France, June 1940. They were among the unfortunate BEF remnants who were cut off from the Dunkirk evacuation by the fast-moving Panzer forces under Irwin Rommel (who would find himself here exactly four years later with quite a different outcome). Surrounded, against the English Channel coast in the French village of St. Valery. There, two weeks after Dunkirk, the vastly-outnumbered, out-supplied, 51st HD, under a sky dark with the air-superiority Luftwaffe, surrendered to the encircled German forces. 4Bn QOCH was the very last unit in the British Army to wear the kilt in combat. Rifle = 1918 BSA SMLE Nr1 MkIII* in .303 calibre. Tartan = Cameron of Erracht:
(If you can see the tartan above -isn't that a nice one?, so how do I add it as a graphic for my screen-name image? ///Edited 30Nov07: Never mind; it's working now, despite the "upload failed" message.///)
Anyway, more importantly, I need to find a kilt-maker who can do the 'military' pleats in the back (so that the tartan pattern is maintained showing intact across the pleated back). I realize I might have to source the material directly myself from a woolen mill in Scotland. One kiltmaker in Scotland recommended "Chisholms" in Inverness. Anyone know anything about them? Any recommendations here in USA?
Last edited by AlamoQOCH; 30th November 07 at 05:17 PM.
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29th November 07, 10:16 PM
#2
There are a number of kiltmakers on this forum. I shan't list them all for fear that I've forgotten one, but if you look at advertisers you'll see a number of them or notice who posts on the kiltmakers part of the forum with "kiltmaker" under their name . As for what you call military pleating, that's generally called "pleating to the sett". The other option is pleating to the stripe, where you pick one stripe and center it in each pleat. When I think of military pleats, I actually think of pleating to the stripe. At least that's how the Gordon Highlanders do it. Anyway, any decent kiltmaker can pleat to either sett or stripe; however the Camerons did it.
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29th November 07, 10:46 PM
#3
You may be referring to Military Box Pleats. This is where a regular knife pleat has been turned back onto itself.
Quite a few here have done this style of pleating and we had a rash of interest on this forum last year right around the time of Kilt Kamp.
You can do a search and find at least ten different threads on Military Box Pleats.
You might PM Way2fractious. I have seen his kilts done this way and they are gorgeous.
About your Tartan, any kiltmaker can order it for you. It is available in P/V and Wool, in all the weights, fairly commonly. Good luck finding a good price in 18 or 22 oz, wool though.
The Royal BC Museum has an original kilt in your Tartan and pleating system. I hope you live in a cool climate.
Steve Ashton
www.freedomkilts.com
Skype (webcam enabled) thewizardofbc
I wear the kilt because: Swish + Swagger = Swoon.
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29th November 07, 11:22 PM
#4
Can't help you out there, but WELCOME from Flint, Michigan!!
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30th November 07, 12:06 AM
#5
I think What Price Glory stocks military replica kilts.
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30th November 07, 01:34 AM
#6
Originally Posted by AlamoQOCH
Anyway, more importantly, I need to find a kilt-maker who can do the 'military' pleats in the back (so that the tartan pattern is maintained showing intact across the pleated back). I realize I might have to source the material directly myself from a woolen mill in Scotland. One kiltmaker in Scotland recommended "Chisholms" in Inverness. Anyone know anything about them? Any recommendations here in USA?
I dont recall where I read this, or if it was accurate, but I beleave the militery fashion is to pleat to the stripe, meaning that round the back, where the pleats are, you get the vertical stripes in the patter showing on each pleat.
What you're describing, I think is 'pleated to set' which was the normal way of making kilts outside the armed forces.
Also, IIRC, militry kilts are generaly knife pleated and 8 to 8 yards of wool.
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30th November 07, 03:26 AM
#7
If you're looking for military box pleats (which are, as far as I know, always pleated to the stripe), try these two:
http://whatpriceglory.com/scot.htm
http://kathyskilts.com/
If you're looking for knife pleats to the sett, that is the norm, and you can get it pretty much anywhere. Kathy does that very well, as do many people on this forum.
Any reputable kiltmaker should be able to get the wool for you.
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30th November 07, 10:00 AM
#8
I'm not a historian and do not know which regiments wore kilts of what pleating style. What I do know is a wee bit about how to make various styles of kilt pleats.
What you described is "pleat to sett." Most, if not all, regiments used "pleat to stripe" likely because it is a concept easy to understand by soldiers who had to make their own kilts from issued tartan. (But sewing perfect tapers between all those stripes in the fell is easier said than done!)
Here is a thread by JohnH, one of our kiltmaking members, in which he photo-documents the making of "military box pleats."
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/m...x.html?t=27980
Check Kathy Lare's site (in Daaaaang's post) because she can also create the military box pleat.
Daaaaang also has it right when he said,
Originally Posted by Daaaaang
... military box pleats (which are, as far as I know, always pleated to the stripe),...
I once played around with some scrap material and pleated it to the sett using the military box pleat style. My conclusion was that trying to recreate the sett with the small, loosely associated pleat "reveals" didn't work nearly as well as with knife pleats. In other words, it could be done, but why?
"Listen Men.... You are no longer bound down to the unmanly dress of the Lowlander." 1782 Repeal.
* * * * *
Lady From Hell vs Neighbor From Hell @ [url]http://way2noisy.blogspot.com[/url]
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30th November 07, 08:42 PM
#9
Daaaaang is dead on. Kathy Lare went back to the Keith Kilt School in Scotland to learn specifically how to do the "official" military box pleats.
Can't hurt to call her or email her and discuss what you want. www.kathyskilts.com
She's hand sewn over 1,000 kilts and being a military family many of them have been of various military tartans and types of pleating...think her website has more info.
I wanted my RAF tartan kilt done with military box pleats, but she actually advised against it for a number of reasons instead of just taking the money and doing it. She'll tell you straight.
I own eight of her hand sewn kilts. Because of her quality workmanship.
She's in Albuquerque, N.M. No clue where you are...may work for or against connecting with her.
Ron
Ol' Macdonald himself, a proud son of Skye and Cape Breton Island
Lifetime Member STA. Two time winner of Utilikiltarian of the Month.
"I'll have a kilt please, a nice hand sewn tartan, 16 ounce Strome. Oh, and a sporran on the side, with a strap please."
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30th November 07, 08:04 AM
#10
I notice that What Price Glory has the Cameron Highlanders kilt pleated to the yellow stripe with box pleats. I'm going to assume that this is how they historically pleated their kilts, in case you want to ask another kiltmaker to make the kilt for you.
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