What makes a Scot?

[beloitpiper]

I noticed things got a bit Off Topic in the general section, so I'd like to move it here...to the Off Topic section.

Seanboy and some others were discussing what makes somebody a Scot. Here's what I think:

I don't really consider myself Irish or Scottish. The two halves of my family came from those places, which is why I think of myself as Celtic. I share an ethnicity with the people from those places, and that ethnicity has lended with it a strong shared culture. The Irish, Scots, Welsh, Bretons, and Galatians share a lot of culture, which has since been brought to the US, Canada, Australia, and even parts of South America (such as Y Wladfa and Montserrat).

I'm convinced the American/Canadian Celtic culture is far different from the Celtic traditions found in Ireland or Scotland. The music is related, but it certainly has evolved, just as dancing, clothing, and other traditions have evolved and changed in the New World. For example: American Bluegrass is rooted heavily in Irish and Scottish folk music, but is not totally the same. If it weren't for Celtic-Americans we wouldn't have Celtic punk like the ever-popular Dropkick Murphys. Cape Breton has developed it's own style of Step Dancing that comes from Irish Step Dancing, but is not totally the same and Contra Dancing, which is totally American, came from Scottish Country Dancing. Claddagh rings, worn by almost all of my Celtic friends here, are relatively rare in Ireland. Tweed caps, which one one my age (20) wore in Ireland, are worn by all of my Irish-American friends here in the US.

But we also don't forget our roots. We owe almost everything to our ancestors, and for that we like to celebrate. We have some really awesome Highland Games (Maxville, Grandfather Mountain) and Milwaukee's Irish Fest is the largest celebration of Irish music and culture in the world. We wear kilts, play bagpipes, a hold Burns Suppers. We bake soda bread, knit sweaters, and distill whiskey.

We have even created our own Celtic myths and legends in the US. There are the stories of William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, and Bonnie Prince Charlie in Scotland, but in the US, we have Davey Crockett, John Ross (who was a Cherokee Chief), and the 69th New York Infantry (the Irish Brigade) during the Civil War.

We have had a long, complex history of our own. We were both the upper class (over half of the signers of the Declaration of Independence could claim Scottish heritage) and the scum of society (No Irish Need Apply, etc.). Boston-Irish and Chicago-Irish even have their own sub cultures that other Celtic-Americans do not share! Sometimes we fought against our Celtic cousins (Andrew Jackson, of Ulster heritage, fought against Highlanders at the Battle of New Orleans), and other times, right beside them (numerous time during WWI and WWII).

So while I feel a strong connection to my cousins across the Atlantic, I am fiercely proud of my Celtic-American heritage and all the achievements that Celtic-Americans have given the world. Thomas Edison alone advanced the phonograph, motion picture, dictaphone, radio, and electric lamp! I love Scotland, and I just lived in Ireland for 4 months, but nothing would make me give up being a Celtic-American.

So I agree with Seanboy. I am not a Scot. I am a Scottish-American. A Celtic new-worlder. The DNA is there, but being a Celtic American certainly has it's differences from being Scottish or Irish.


What do you think? Oh, and be civil.

[Livingston]

Be civil? Thanks no fun. Oh well.

In my very humble opinion, I fell that I am first and foremost an American. Since the US is the vast melting pot of world, at least all of us that have had ancestors here for any length of time, we are each of too many different nationalities to difinitively say we are Scottish, French, English, Spanish or whatever. In the research I have done on my ancestors, I find that I am Scottish, English, Welsh, Norwegian, Spanish, French, German and... Well, I gave up at that point. If you base it on sur name, well, then I guess I'd be Scottish. So, for purposes of this board and in general, I fell that I am an American with Scottish heritage. And that's just my opinion.

[slohairt]

I'll be civil! If you're referring to the Celtic Nations discussion we had, you'll note that I respectfully but vehemently disagreed with most of seanboy's views.

What makes a Scot? Obviously the simplest answer would be someone born in Scotland. The rest are descendants using such terms as Scottish-American, Scottish-Canadian, Scottish-Australian, etc.

Greg, if the two halves of your family hail from Scotland and Ireland, that would make you more than just a Celt, it would make you a Gael. Think of the Irish language terms: Gael Albannach, Gael Éireannach, and Gael Mheiriceánach. You are an American Gael.

I suppose I would be Gael Cheanadach, but it's a bit different for me. I don't readily relate as much to the genealogy efforts of North Americans because I was born in Ireland (and spent a third of my life there), thus making my daughter the first-born generation here in Canada. I suppose I could relate in a way through my paternal grandmother, who was born in Scotland. I know much less about her family (Graham) and am just beginning to look into it.

So, it comes back to what I mentioned in another post about state citizenship and ethnicity/nationality. Someone born in the United States with Scottish ancestry is a Scottish-American, not a Scot. That would be someone specifically born in Scotland.

P.S. I'm fairly certain that Cape Breton dancing is from Scottish dancing. Cape Breton Island (Eilean Cheap Breatainn) was populated almost exclusively by Highlanders.

[McFarkus]

for purposes of this board and in general, I feel that I am an American with Scottish heritage. And that's just my opinion.

Ditto. I'm a Heinz 57 hyphenated American. It would be difficult to say that one part is predominant. However, both my mother and my paternal grandmother talked a great deal about their Scottish heritage and thus it became important to me and my siblings.

[Bugbear]

Ditto. I'm a Heinz 57 hyphenated American. It would be difficult to say that one part is predominant. However, both my mother and my paternal grandmother talked a great deal about their Scottish heritage and thus it became important to me and my siblings.

I can understand this. Sadly, my father clames all this Scottishness and bla bla bla, but it comes down to that he likes short bread, and that's about it. The rest is all talk, and he doesn't have the guts to put on a kilt. I saw him for the first time in seven years back in December. I had sent my step mother pictures of me wearing a kilt. I new he was just dieing to make some snide comment, but he new his place.That being said, I don't feel Scottish; I'm kind of... nothing. Nice to wear a kilt though.

[Bryan]

My mother was born and raised in Germany, but her father was an American. Does she consider herself German? No, she says she's an American. Do I consider myself German? No, but I do have a very direct German ancestry. Her family also has English, Welsh and Cornish lines. Dad's side is mostly German, Scottish, English.

I'm an American, born and raised that happens to have German-English-Welsh-Scottish-Cornish ancestry. But before all that, I'm a fiercely proud Texan and when someone asks what I am, that's my reply.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I'm a fiercely proud Texan and when someone asks what I am, that's my reply.

Thank goodness we don't have a thread asking "What makes a Texan"!

[beloitpiper]

But before all that, I'm a fiercely proud Texan and when someone asks what I am, that's my reply.

Haha, we have a saying here:

Wisconsinites: just as proud as Texans, twice as modest...

[Coemgen]

Ditto. I'm a Heinz 57 hyphenated American. It would be difficult to say that one part is predominant. However, both my mother and my paternal grandmother talked a great deal about their Scottish heritage and thus it became important to me and my siblings.

Ah yes, a fellow mutt! Myself, I can claim to be of Irish, English, Swiss, Prussian, Russian, German, Alsace, and Croat ancestry. Probably some Scottish, but we aren't sure.

But, when asked what I am, I answer that I am American.

[Mike1]

OK gentlemen, here's how this is going to go, from here on out.

Any more of the nonsense like we've been seeing from seanboy and this one goes to the bin. There are a couple of members that are likely going to get late Christmas presents in the form of forum infractions, because of their behavior, as well. And I'll doubtless take heat for saying this here (save your PM's fellows, as I really can't be bothered with them), but seanboy you're about this >< close to finding yourself on the outside looking in. Any more of the ad hominem argument and you're going to be away. Your rude and offensive behavior is not welcome here, so tune up your act.

This thread has been a source of concern for the moderating staff since it was opened and some of you have pushed well beyond the limits of acceptable forum behavior. If you want to post in this thread, be very sure you are not going to regret it at a later date.

While I've got everyone's attention, some of the jokes, comments, pictures and general language around here are getting out of hand. We used to be quite proud of the ladies that were very active participants on this forum and I would like to point out nearly all of them have left. If you fellows feel more manly with the locker room language, then by golly you just go right ahead and use it. But hear this well - this is not a locker room and we're finished tolerating it here.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm a cold-hearted, evil, wicked, mean, S.O.B. for posting this here, instead of sending Private Messages. Get used to it or get over it. Your choice.