Differences Between Poly/Viscose Weights

[DotDLL]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of buying a new tartan kilt, but am not exactly sure what to get. I own a Stillwater Standard kilt, and I like the fact that it can be machine-washed, however the material is very light and blows in the wind a bit too easily for my taste. I am hoping to get a kilt that is as easy to clean, and is made with a heavier material. I'm thinking that a poly/viscose kilt is the way to go, but am confused as to whether or not there is a big difference between PV material weights. Is there much difference between a PV kilt made with 11 oz material than one made with 13 oz material? What about 16 oz PV?

[Nick the DSM]

i dont think they make 13oz or 16 oz PV, do they? i've heard that someone was going to make a 16 oz but i havent heard more of it. i thought the heaviest for PV is 11 oz. then what do i know, lets see if anyone else knows.

[The Wizard of BC]

There is currently only one manufacturer of Poly/Viscous Tartan fabric. That is Marton Mills.
Believe me, if there were others Rocky, Pete or I would know about it. That's our job.
The fabric from Marton Mills weighs 375 grams per linear meter or 9.75 oz /yard.
The fabrics that are advertised as heavy weight P/V are usually 100% Polyester or Acrylic. And the term heavy weight is very subjective. Fabric is normally listed in weight for a piece 60" wide by 1 yard long but some manufacturers use a different system.
I know of only one length of true 13 oz P/V that has ever been woven and that was a test run done by Fraser & Kirkbright in Vancouver of Black Watch Tartan. I had a 4 yard piece of it and weighed it and it was exactly 13.1 0z.

As a side, I also weighed some of the fabric in kilts that are coming from mills in Pakistan, India, and China and they weighed out at 4-5 oz even though they were listed as 13 oz.

I'm not knocking those fabrics but the truth right now is that our world of Tartan is so small that it just isin't cost effective for mills to produce. So we are in a cunundrum. Accept light weight Acrylic fabrics or raise such a stink that the mills start to produce what we are asking for.

Bottom line, be suspicious of claims of heavy weight P/V Tartan fabric that is listed as P/V until proven to be so.
Do a search here for the burn test that you can do to determine what composition your fabric is made from.

[Tartan Hiker]

Accept light weight Acrylic fabrics or raise such a stink that the mills start to produce what we are asking for.

If anyone knows HOW to raise a stink, please let me in on it. I've emailed MM on several occasions with questions, and have never gotten a reply. I suppose someone read the notes, but apparently didn't think them worthy of a response.

Perhaps a "snail-mail" barrage from the rabble might get their attention?

[The Wizard of BC]

Actually the problem is not with the weaving mills but with the yarn spinning mills. The vast majority of them which are in China and India.

When manufacturing Made-Made fibers such as Polyester, Rayon, and Acrylic, each fiber thickness is determined by the spinnerets that the liquid is extruded from. To make yarn you then must twist multiple individual strands together. The more strands in each yarn, the thicker the yarn and the heavier the resulting fabric will be.

If for example there are 20 yarns to the inch in your fabric. Now take a piece of fabric 60 inches wide and 1 yard long. This piece of fabric will have 2400 yards of yarn in it. That's 1.36 miles of yarn per yard of fabric!!!! Or 5.45 miles of yarn to make one kilt.

And how many colors of yarn do I need on hand to weave each of the 4000 registered Tartans??? No one can stock 400 miles of yarn just waiting for one of the X Marks rabble to order his kilt.

We are a very small insignificant part of the overall weaving business. And I'm sorry to say that very few weaving mills are going to try and support themselves weaving just for us.

So, Buy kilts, buy lot's of Kilts, If you want heavy weight P/V Kilts then start ordering them. order truck loads of them. Then perhaps the weavers will find it profitable to make the fabric we want available.

[RockyR]

There is currently only one manufacturer of Poly/Viscous Tartan fabric. That is Marton Mills.
Believe me, if there were others Rocky, Pete or I would know about it. That's our job.

1 small correction, Steve... there ARE other mills that weave PV. Batleys weaves PV as does another company in Canada (the mill that weaves the Canadian district tartans), but the QUALITY is very low, so none of us use them.

There are also some mills (in China and Pakistan) that weave PV cloth, but the quality is LOWER STILL than others, so we don't use them. "All PV is not created equal".

Here's the "Material Comparison Guide":

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/page/material_chart.php

When a kilt company says they have PV kilts, ask them what MILL wove the PV. If they don't say "Marton Mills", ask them for a swatch of the material and buy at your own risk.

[MacHummel]

i have had samples of some of the "16oz" pv that is out there and it is crap, when we made up the the Maple Leaf in the pv it was done in 12oz with a kilting selvage from MM and it was sweet. The Isle of Skye(which we paid royalties and have permisson to have woven) we did is of the same quality,I have had PV from companies here in Canada they claimed to be 11oz but it was not that at all, that is why I deal with MM it is of the highest quality and looks and feels great, ask anyone of us that us it for kiltmaking .

[Yaish]

Some of the more accomplished makers might correct me, but basically no matter the material the 'weights' are the same. It's how heavy a yard of the material is no matter what it's made of.

Now I would imagine depending on the material at certain weights you see a difference in the way it flows and folds, some materials being stiffer than others. Most of the PV kilts made will be in the 11-13 ox range I believe.

[Bugbear]

Thanks for posting that information, The Wizard of BC. Very interesting.

[Finn]

Thanks, Steve & Rocky!
I've been curious about that myself.