Knifemaking Question

[Casey_in_Carolina]

First off, this is more of a knowledge question than anything else. I'm not planning to attempt anything in the immediate future, though I have been toying with the idea of making a knife at some point, when I get some time to devote to it.

The question is about handles. The blade part seems fairly straightforward, and I have an uncle who's learning to be a blacksmith, so I can get hands on instruction and access to tools for the blade.

The handle puzzles me though. The majority of knives I see have the full tang, which is drilled through, and a like size 'rivet' of a softer metal is pushed through the wood of the handle, and the tang, then peened out to lock the handle piece in place. The Sgian Dubh though, does not have a full tang, I'm not sure of the proper name for it, but in my head it's a 'shank' tang. The majority of things I see regarding putting a handle on a knife with this type of tang revolves around the use of some sort of epoxy.

What I'm curious about is, how were handles attached to knives, Sgian Dubh in particular, with these types of tangs, prior to the invention of modern epoxies. I've read several articles on knifemaking on various websites, and even the ones who touted using 'traditional' or 'primitive' methods of forging the blade and carving the handle all recommended using modern epoxies to secure the blade into the handle.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that there should be a way to attach the handle to the blade that reflects the similar effort put into forging the blade and carving the handle. What did they do before modern epoxies?

I'd be grateful if anyone could enlighten me on the subject. The knifemaking project is still a mental exercise at this point, but I feel it may become an actual project at some point, and want to look at it from all sides.

Thanks,

Casey

[Mr. Woolery]

A very simple way to make a "primitive epoxy" is to use good quality pine pitch. I use brewer's pitch for primitive knives (or did when I made them). If you add some filler material like fine fibers of pounded softwood (or some makers use deer dung which results in essentially the same sort of fibers), it gives a matrix that strengthens the pitch. This sort of adhesive actually has a history going back to the stone age, as it has been used since then for setting stone points in arrows and I presume also for stone knife blades in handles.

Most old-school hidden tangs (also called rat-tail tangs, push tangs, through tangs, and several other names) were long enough to extend all the way through the handle block, where they were peened over a small (or large) buttcap or washer. Many fine scandinavian knives are still made this way, as it works very well.

A good book for answering a lot of these questions would be Tim McCreight's book Custom Knifemaking. It is really a hobby-level book, but he touches on several different techniques in ways that no other book does that I have seen. If your library doesn't have it, they can certainly interlibrary loan it for you. A fantastic book for all sorts of beautiful things that can be done with hidden tangs is Bo Bergman's book Knifemaking. All scandinavian style knives, and all lovely. Worth the read, even if you never intend to make a knife. He does not make the blades as that is not part of the Nordic concept of knifemaker. The bladesmith sells blades and knifemakers make them into tools and art. Sort of like how very few kilt makers also weave the fabric they sew. May actually lead to better products by specializing. Though I make all my own blades because that's part of the fun for me.

-Patrick

[ChattanCat]

I'm no expert on knives, but I have seen some sgian dubh's with a threaded shank and an nut (or an ornamental cap nut). Not sure if this is the way it was done before epoxy, but some dirks have a nut on the top as well as some of the duhs from Sgian Dubh company. If it has a nib on the top, it is probably threaded.

[sydnie7]

Another thread about antler-handle knives included a link to a reconstructionist's site. He said that soaking an antler in water for a long time (weeks, perhaps) softened the innermost core of the antler enough that you could push the knife tang into it. Once dried, he stated, the bond was as strong as any epoxy. He also warned that the smell of antler soaked that long in water was as strong as the glue effect

You might try surfing the reconstructionist sites for specific info along these lines.

[Carolina Kiltman]

When you get your round toit, be sure to post pictures of your work!

[Packhound]

When you get your round toit, be sure to post pictures of your work!

Absolutely!! I am comfortable with sewing needles and knitting needles, but I don't know enough about knife making to even think about attempting to make one. (Although I would really like to learn.)

[Bugbear]

Another thread about antler-handle knives included a link to a reconstructionist's site. He said that soaking an antler in water for a long time (weeks, perhaps) softened the innermost core of the antler enough that you could push the knife tang into it. Once dried, he stated, the bond was as strong as any epoxy. He also warned that the smell of antler soaked that long in water was as strong as the glue effect

You might try surfing the reconstructionist sites for specific info along these lines.

And that thread was James MacMillan's thread, "Putting an antler on a knife"

[Casey_in_Carolina]

Thanks for the replies. That site with the instructions for soaking an Antler and pressing it on the tang is really interesting. I plan to do some more research, and if things work out in the future, I'll be sure to posts pics of my efforts. For the time being though, it looks as if I might have several new books to try and find and get some reading done


Thanks again,

Casey

[Raptor]

Another old way was a glue made from deer/horses hooves. Everything I've been able to find seems to point to the blade being of more import than the hilt so they simply attached it with the best technology available & replaced it when it got loose. We have great epoxies available cheaply nowdays, I think it's easier to use them.

[Tartan Hiker]

Don't forget other typical hafting technologies, all involving a narrow tang that extends all the way through the handle. One was to simply wrap the tang with leather or cordage until it was built up to the proper dimension. Another was to drill out a wooden handle, then peen the end of the tang to hold it all in place (before threaded nuts were invented). This is how most early swords were hafted. There is a very old dirk on ebay right now with a peened tang. I'll try to post a pic of it when I get a chance.