Five Button, Six Button, and Edwardian Style Waistcoats?

[Bugbear]

First, what is the difference, other than the number of buttons, between a five button and a six button traditional waistcoat for a kilt?

Next, how do these differences affect the neckwear or any other accessories being worn with the waistcoat?

I'm guessing that the six button waistcoat has a higher neck line than a five button waistcoat... So how does a higher neck line (I think called Edwardian style) on the waistcoat affect the type of neckwear that should be worn?

Thank you.

[JSFMACLJR]

Ted, there is no difference really, other than the obvious. There might be about 3/4 of an inch difference in length, actually (just measured a couple of waistcoats), but hardly any big deal.

One would wear the same neckwear with either: a four-in-hand neck tie.

The key here, Ted, is not to get hung up on pretty insignificant details.

BTW, almost all of my "non kilt" waistcoats are 6 button: the two that are 5 button are exactly the same length.

[Bugbear]

Thanks JSFMACLJR.

I didn't know if there was a difference in the styles.

However, there is a style of waistcoat that has a very high neck line compared to the usuall waistcoats. I think MacMillan of Rathdown called it an Edwardian style. It was supposed to work well with a bow tie, but I'm not sure how well it would work with a four-in-hand tie.

I recall seeing this type of waistcoat in old pictures, but it seems like only with the bow tie. It's hard to remember the details from what I have seen.

[DWFII]

Thanks JSFMACLJR.

I didn't know if there was a difference in the styles.

However, there is a style of waistcoat that has a very high neck line compared to the usuall waistcoats. I think MacMillan of Rathdown called it an Edwardian style. It was supposed to work well with a bow tie, but I'm not sure how well it would work with a four-in-hand tie.

I recall seeing this type of waistcoat in old pictures, but it seems like only with the bow tie. It's hard to remember the details from what I have seen.

I think you see more notched lapel, high gorge vests in the Victorian era than in the Edwardian (also known as Le Belle Epoch), although there is some persistence of style. But remember the Edwardian era is turn of the century to WWI and by that time you're starting to see the origins of contemporary fashions. I recall seeing an Arrow shirt advertisement and while it was stylized a bit by the artist, it looked almost like what was seen in the next three decades, as well. Mind you, it looked 'dated' but you'd have to know a lot about men's fashions to point to the specific reasons it looked dated but not antique.

Here's a link to Edwardian vests, dated 1910-1911:

http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/gall...0/pages/35.htm

And another link that is extremely useful for exploring all eras of men's costumes":

http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/100p...nsfashhist.htm

[Bugbear]

Thanks, DWFII. I have seen the high gorge, notched lapel waistcoats, but I was thinking of something a little different.

There's no notched lapel on the waistcoat, and it has a high wide "V" shape; about as high as some of the pull over sweater vests. I would guess that there are a few more buttons, too. The two sides of the waistcoat closure would probably cross between the second and third button of a shirt. And now that I think about it, the pictures I'm remembering probably were from the early nineteen-hundreds.

[Carolina Kiltman]

Thanks, DWFII. I have seen the high gorge, notched lapel waistcoats, but I was thinking of something a little different.

There's no notched lapel on the waistcoat, and it has a high wide "V" shape; about as high as some of the pull over sweater vests. I would guess that there are a few more buttons, too. The two sides of the waistcoat closure would probably cross between the second and third button of a shirt. And now that I think about it, the pictures I'm remembering probably were from the early nineteen-hundreds.

Actually I can see no reason not to wear a four-in-hand tie even with a high gorge vest. I seem to remember my Father in suits that were all one fabric, coat, trousers, waistcoats and four-in-hand ties (probably made in the 1920-1935 era). The gorge on the vests were about what one would see on a v-neck sweater.

[Bugbear]

Ya, I guess it would work with a four-in-hand tie. Wouldn't show much of the tie though, which probably doesn't matter. I very much remember suits and ties that were all the same fabric: four and five piece suits maybe...

[DWFII]

I much prefer a four-in-hand framed by a high gorge waistcoat than the look of a similar tie with a low cut vest.

I can't decide whether the latter looks like some mutant flat worm draped around the neck...or a game of pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey gone tragically wrong.

[Bugbear]

I much prefer a four-in-hand framed by a high gorge waistcoat than the look of a similar tie with a low cut vest.

I can't decide whether the latter looks like some mutant flat worm draped around the neck...or a game of pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey gone tragically wrong.

DWFII, if you mean low cut as in three button evening waistcoat, then I agree.

I think where I would use the high gorge waistcoat is with a jabot.

[Mark Keeney]

This is a pattern for a high vest.
vest pattern
It could be cut higher to go with a kilt.