A question for those in the know

[Dall_Piobaire]

Hello all!

Been lurking for a while, and now figured I start things with a question.

I am Boyd from my mom's side, Argyl. I notice that there is the standard modern tartan, the ancient, and of course the weathered, at least from some mills. I have also found that there was no tartan listed specifically for Boyd or Hay, at least in the resource I found, before 1950 . Now I know that there weren't truly assigned tartans, per se, with exception of a few mentioned in the 18th century, before the mid to late 19th century. So, what is the legitimacy for the ancient Boyd tartan? Was it just marketing and a weaver's whim? Is it really any more appropriate to go with ancient as oppossed to modern?

Also looking for leads on a top kiltmaker here in the states.

Enjoy the forum, and look forward to the input!

Thanks
Scott

[Phil]

Welcome from Edinburgh. I'm sure there are plenty here with the answers you are looking for. As far as ancient colours go they are just a variation on the standard ones but more muted to represent older, natural dyes rather than the brighter more modern ones.

[Dall_Piobaire]

Hi Phil, and thanks for the welcome!

I'll tell you what, the ancient Boyd, lol, that would make coordinating tastefully a real challange. Brings to mind orange sherbert!!! Of course that is just from Loch Carron though!

Which mills are considered among the top over there?

Slainte
Scott

[Morris at Heathfield]

Which mills are considered among the top over there?

I believe the "Big Three" are Lochcarron, Strathmore, and House of Edgar. Another well-regarded but smaller mill is D. C. Dalgliesh.

As a matter of interest, is there any other tartan out there called "Ancient"?

The Campbell Clan tartan is sometimes known as "Ancient Campbell", presumably to differentiate it from the "Campbell of Argyll" tartan. Of course, it is also usually worn in ancient colors, presumably to differentiate it from the Black Watch tartan, which may be where the "ancient" part of the name came from.

There is also an "Ancient Forbes" tartan (STA & STWR #212). Despite the name, it is a newer design than the customary Forbes tartan (i.e., the one identical to the Lamont, but with black guard lines next to the white stripe). However, the Ancient Forbes tartan is the one the Clan Chief decided to register with Lord Lyon in 1949. I suppose that makes Ancient Forbes the official tartan of Clan Forbes; nevertheless, the present Clan Chief appears to prefer the customary Forbes tartan.

The Stewart tartan regarded as the Clan tartan is often known as "Ancient Stewart" or "Old Stewart", as there are better-known Stewart tartans that aren't the Clan tartan.

The Ancient Morrison tartan has an interesting history. The Clan Society chose a tartan based on the Mackay in 1909. Then, in 1935, a red-based tartan was found in an old family bible. The Morrisons began wearing this tartan as a Clan tartan, while the other tartan became known as "Green", "Hunting", or "Society" Morrison. In 1968 the (Red) Morrison was registered with Lord Lyon as the Clan tartan; however, the version that was registered had only a single green stripe, which is believed to be an error, but Lord Lyon refused to alter it. The version with two green stripes, believed to be the original version, is therefore known as "Ancient Morrison" (in the tartan registries, at least) to distinguish it from that registered with Lord Lyon.

The symmetrical Buchanan (e.g., "Buchanan #2-4" in the Scottish Register of Tartans) is sometimes referred to as "Ancient Buchanan", although the Celtic Croft prefers "Buchanan (MacGregor Hastie Variant)".

There are plenty more examples. Try searching for "ancient" or "old" on the Scottish Register of Tartans.

[Monkey@Arms]

What he said^^. Here's a nice illustrated essay by the ever helpful Matt Newsom which explains about the different color schemes: http://albanach.org/colors.html

Best regards,

Jake

[BEEDEE]

from coastal North Carolina. I see Monkey@Arms has beaten my to the link to Matt Newsome's article. Ancient does not mean chronologically old, but has to do with the dies and colors used in older times.

Brian


:ootd:

[Dall_Piobaire]

thanks Jake and Brian!

While I was reading the ariticle, I realized I knew that. Oh well, sorry I couldn't be more of a challange first time out.

Curious Brian, are you wearing a 16oz or 13? I know the heat out there is worse than here, but I worry about going with a sixteen, with our heat an humidity!!!

Scott

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Ancient does not mean chronologically old, but has to do with the dies and colors used in older times.

Not Always. Ancient MacMillan is just that, possibly the oldest tartan known to our clan, although there is a strong argument to suggest that the "Dress" MacMillan is older.

As a matter of interest, is there any other tartan out there called "Ancient"?

[Sammac]

Welcome from Michigan

[Dall_Piobaire]

Well Hello back to ya Mich!

Used to live up there myself, East Lansing!