Confirming Poll for NYS Tartan Proposal

[Brian K]

OK everyone, as I mentioned in the "Time To Vote" thread, I am concerned that many, if not most, of those who commented on their choice of Amble's design that got 25 of the 49 votes seemed to indicate that they were "settling" for that design rather than being enthusiastic about it. I could, of course, be wrong but as I am principally interested in getting a strong design that people can support I want to test this impression before we move forward with this project.

To that end I am starting a new poll with the winner of the first poll, a modification of the second place design which addresses the concerns of Barb and Gabe about whether or not it would be suitable for kilt making because of the finer stripes (this also addresses, to a degree, the concerns of those who thought it too busy), and a new design by Amble in recognition that the third place option was "We Need To Start Over." The "Start Over" option is included again.

If you vote for one of the options but you still have some reservations please post a comment explaining your reservation. If you choose "Start Over" then please explain why you like none of the designs or what you would like to see instead. I don't want this to go on forever, but I do want to come up with the strongest possible design before we start gathering support and approach the New York State Legislature with a proposal.

Option 1 - Amble's design which won the original poll:



This is a nice clean design which is very traditional in nature. Highland attire is nothing if not about tradition. If it is the winner once again it will probably be tweaked a bit to make it larger and, perhaps, to make it a bit less "blocky," one of the principal concerns mentioned about it. Probably two or three tweaks will be made - with the assistance of a premier kilt maker - and a final poll will be had to pick the ultimate choice.

Option 2 - a modification/simplification of my original design:



This is a rather unusual choice because most people assume that New York is principally urban but it is a vastly rural state. The rusticity speaks to our rural heritage and the understated palette makes it quite versatile. While, of course, matching is not a high priority in highland attire, this sett is unlikely to seriously conflict with any color it is paired with. As with Option 1, this design is also subject to tweaking in the same manner.

Option 3 - an entirely new design from Amble:



Amble calls this sett "Maples." If there is an iconic tree in New York it is most certainly the maple. Even in a muted palette, as shown here, it perfectly evokes the brilliant colors of our state tree from the green of Spring to the reds and golds of Fall. Much more than the others it also lends itself well to either increasing or decreasing the intensity of the colors by being woven with either modern or ancient colors as follows:

Modern -



Ancient -



As with the other designs, tweaking may occur after final selection.

Now, go ahead and vote

Regards,

Brian

[Semiomniscient]

I don't know where these were designed, but if they were designed and saved on Tartanweb, then only Tartanweb has the rights to produce them. I would think this would be a problem in a tartan to be adopted officially by a city. In such a case, that tartan should be open to free use, not restricted.

[Woodsheal]

I don't know where these were designed, but if they were designed and saved on Tartanweb, then only Tartanweb has the rights to produce them. I would think this would be a problem in a tartan to be adopted officially by a city. In such a case, that tartan should be open to free use, not restricted.

This was already settled when Nick at Tartanweb relinquished any claims to the NY designs, gentleman that he is...!

[Brian K]

I don't know where these were designed, but if they were designed and saved on Tartanweb, then only Tartanweb has the rights to produce them. I would think this would be a problem in a tartan to be adopted officially by a city. In such a case, that tartan should be open to free use, not restricted.

Your point is well taken, Jamie, but it was actually Scotweb where the designs were created and Nick Fiddes graciously waived his rights to the designs in this project in the original thread proposing this project.

Regards,

Brian

[Jock Scot]

I make no comment on the tartans above and will not be voting, but the thought comes to mind of the problems of obtaining a final tartan "by committee", the expression of; "you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time" comes to mind.The Clan chiefs of yesteryear had no such problems, which is just as well as the Scots have never been very good at agreeing with each other. Good luck!

[Brian K]

I make no comment on the tartans above and will not be voting, but the thought comes to mind of the problems of obtaining a final tartan "by committee", the expression of; "you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time" comes to mind.The Clan chiefs of yesteryear had no such problems, which is just as well as the Scots have never been very good at agreeing with each other. Good luck!

I understand your concern, Jock, but the analog of a clan chief in this case would be Governor Paterson. Right now the poor man can't seem to please anyone - he can't even get our legislature to approve a budget that's already 2 months overdue. In this case some sort of committee process may actually be more efficient

Regards,

Brian

[davidlpope]

Option #1 reminds me of the Montreat Tartan. The threadcount isn't that similar as much as the overall effect is.

Anyway, like Jock, I don't have a dog in this fight, but would offer one perpective that may have not been raised before in terms of colors used.

Recent tartan designs tend to focus on particular shadings of color used in the tartan- a particular rusty red, a particular piney green, for example. "Design your Own Tartan" types of computer programs exxagerate this trend as one can choose between many shades of the same basic color. The plus and minus of this approach is that often the overall pleasing effect of the tartan is dependent on using those exact colors. Consider the "Isle of Skye" tartan. Beautiful by all accounts, but if went to tinkering with the colors just a little it would not be as recognizable or, IMHO, as attractive. Another example is the Leatherneck tartan, which isn't woven in a recognizable (modern, ancient, etc.) color scheme, but uses a "muted" red, "modern" yellow, "ancient" green, and "St. Andrew's" blue. The effect is nice, but you're a bit limited to those particular colors for it to be recognizable.

The other option would be to design a tartan which used a more traditional approach to colors in unspecified shades (blue, red, green, azure, yellow, white, black) and focus more on making the design elements themselves more recognizable. If you took this path one could have the tartan woven in modern, ancient, weathered, or muted color schemes, to in the same way that traditional clan tartans are woven.

Once again, I don't really have an opinion on the design ultimately chosen, but just wanted to raise a broader point about modern tartan design.

Cordially,

David

[Brian K]

Option #1 reminds me of the Montreat Tartan. The threadcount isn't that similar as much as the overall effect is.

Anyway, like Jock, I don't have a dog in this fight, but would offer one perpective that may have not been raised before in terms of colors used.

Recent tartan designs tend to focus on particular shadings of color used in the tartan- a particular rusty red, a particular piney green, for example. "Design your Own Tartan" types of computer programs exxagerate this trend as one can choose between many shades of the same basic color. The plus and minus of this approach is that often the overall pleasing effect of the tartan is dependent on using those exact colors. Consider the "Isle of Skye" tartan. Beautiful by all accounts, but if went to tinkering with the colors just a little it would not be as recognizable or, IMHO, as attractive. Another example is the Leatherneck tartan, which isn't woven in a recognizable (modern, ancient, etc.) color scheme, but uses a "muted" red, "modern" yellow, "ancient" green, and "St. Andrew's" blue. The effect is nice, but you're a bit limited to those particular colors for it to be recognizable.

The other option would be to design a tartan which used a more traditional approach to colors in unspecified shades (blue, red, green, azure, yellow, white, black) and focus more on making the design elements themselves more recognizable. If you took this path one could have the tartan woven in modern, ancient, weathered, or muted color schemes, to in the same way that traditional clan tartans are woven.

Once again, I don't really have an opinion on the design ultimately chosen, but just wanted to raise a broader point about modern tartan design.

Cordially,

David

Thanks, David. This is something I have thought about to a certain degree and I attempted to deal with it somewhat when discussing Amble's Maples designs. Indeed, I think I have discussed the fact that you don't always know what will happen when different weavers get their hands on a sett in a previous incarnation of this discussion. Even trying to reproduce very specific colors different weavers will come up with different results. That's why it's always good to ask for swatches when making a choice. Throw in ancient, muted or weathered options and you have a real mess on your hands.

Regards,

Brian

[Jock Scot]

I understand your concern, Jock, but the analog of a clan chief in this case would be Governor Paterson. Right now the poor man can't seem to please anyone - he can't even get our legislature to approve a budget that's already 2 months overdue. In this case some sort of committee process may actually be more efficient

Regards,

Brian

The only difference that I can see is that the Clan Chief only had to please himself and to heck with everyone else. At times, that does speed up the decision making more than somewhat!

[Brian K]

The only difference that I can see is that the Clan Chief only had to please himself and to heck with everyone else. At times, that does speed up the decision making more than somewhat!

I understand, Jock. I guess my (too subtle) point is that if Mr. Paterson chose a sett to please himself it would, ipso facto, please no one else and would remain unworn and unappreciated