The 1822 Jacket

[longhuntr74]

I can't remember who posted a link to this, but I love it:

MacKenzie Frain 1822 Commemorative Coatee

Unfortunately it's out of my price range to buy. Here's my question to the masses.

1. What are your thoughts about the suitability of this coat at a modern formal highland affair? I know that some of our esteemed members have emphasized that "cookie cutter" formal wear is to be avoided if possible...but that there are also some general guiding principals as well. Would a coat such as this make one appear socially awkward (or worse yet, inept?) or as having flair and panache?

2. What type of vest and collar could a collarless coat such as this be worn with (aside from that historical style shown). Could this look be modernized by wearing a modern white cotton pique vest and hard front wing collar shirt (ala white tie)? Would it look awkward with black tie?

3. If I were to make my own based on this example...in perhaps, say, green velvet...what modifications would you suggest, if any?

[creagdhubh]

Just go with the similar Sheriffmuir in your choice of coloured cotton velvet. An excellent source for such a doublet and other variants, is Kinloch-Anderson out of Leith, Scotland.

Cheers,

[longhuntr74]

Thanks for the input Kyle...but I really am not a fan of the Sheriffmuir jacket. I know why you suggest it, as it is a similar style (in manner of wear...but definitely not in cut). Things I really dislike about it are: the straight front edges, the fastening at the neck, the cuff style, and the lack of fitted appearance. I want a jacket that tapers inward at the waist to accentuate my narrow waist and broad shoulders. I am a huge fan of the regulation doublet...I view this coatee as somewhat of a collarless version of that coat...it'd be much easier to make as it has no lapels or collar and the tashes are rather plain.

[creagdhubh]

Gotcha. I wear a 15 ounce, black barathea wool Regulation doublet from Kinloch-Anderson and I absolutely love it! I also wear a tartan waistcoat (I actually own four, all in different Macpherson tartans and with three silver buttons), cut on the bias, with the doublet for certain ocassions, which is from Kinloch as well. All of my items are bespoke. Check out the below photos-I'm the one with the hair sporran in case you weren't aware. Good luck, and cheers my friend.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Thanks for the input Kyle...but I really am not a fan of the Sheriffmuir jacket. I know why you suggest it, as it is a similar style (in manner of wear...but definitely not in cut). Things I really dislike about it are: the straight front edges, the fastening at the neck, the cuff style, and the lack of fitted appearance.

I'm not necessarily trying to persuade you to get a Sheriffmuir doublet, but I just wanted to point out that you should be able to order one with whatever cuff style you prefer. And the "lack of fitted appearance" most likely boils down to the fact that you've probably seen men wearing ill fitted doublets. If the jacket is properly fitted, it should look... well, properly fitted. :-)

So if you did order your Sheriffmuir made-to-measure and supplied the makers with accurate measurements, and let them know your wishes regarding cuff style, etc., that would take care of at least two of the reasons you don't like Sheriffmuirs.

I've also seen the curvature of the opening of the doublet be more or less pronounced, depending on the maker. So that may be something you have options with, as well.

[MacLowlife]

I like the doublet, Longhuntr, but I agree wholeheartedly about toning down the trim. I would either go for "self" colored trim, i.e., matching the fabric of the coat, or black. I have a melton piper's doublet in black with silver-white trim and have often thought it would be nicer for non-piping formal wear if it had black trim. I'd like to echo the good advice of Matt and MoR and JSFMacL as well. I suspect you can copy this jacket easily enough. Mackenzie Frain do a great job, but you can save a fortune by doing it yourself or having it done closer to home, especially if you are going to be departing from M-F's design anyway. Show us the end product, please.

[creagdhubh]

You are more than welcome mate. I am pleased to see that Matt, Scott and Sandy responded to your query, as I trust their experienced judgment and advice immensely. I also tend to agree with Matt in terms of the Sheriffmuir. I for one do not purchase any piece of Highland attire that I know will not fit well. The fit, cut, and measurements are all extremely vital to the final appearance, as I am sure you are well aware, and that is why I tend to have my doublets made bespoke to my frame. I too have a relatively small waist and broad shoulders, so I understand where you are coming from.

I absolutely love the way my Regulation doublet looks when I wear it. I also own a simple, understated, and very elegant Coatee from Kinloch-Anderson as well. The Coatee does not have braided epualettes, has only three buttons on the front, does have tails with buttons in rear, has Braemar cuffs, and is made of 15 ounce, black barathea wool. It is probably too simple and understated for what you are looking for, and is somewhat actually that way for me at this point in my life (though it has its uses for certain events and I adore the cut and simplicity), that is why I am in the process of having a tartan doublet made (see my thread in the traditional Highland dress topic on XMTS) at the moment!

I do concur with what Sandy, Scott, and MacLowlife mentioned regarding the 1822 style doublet. I would indeed tone it down a wee bit by not having the gold braiding-that looks too much like a costume doublet, or more along the lines of a uniform. I do not own a doublet or coatee in velvet, though I have often dreamed of getting one, it never occurred to me that the fabric would leave deep creases like Scott said, hmmm, probably wont consider a velvet doublet anymore then since I am so OCD (thanks to the Marine Corps!) when it comes to my Highland attire-no wrinkles!!!

Good luck with your new venture my friend and please keep all of us posted!

Cheers,

[bchunter]

I really like this coatee, too. Simple, but a tad more elegant than a Sherriffmuir in my opinion. Looks much cooler (comfortable) than a Montrose, too, which would be a condsideration down South.

[JSFMACLJR]

I can't remember who posted a link to this, but I love it:

MacKenzie Frain 1822 Commemorative Coatee

Unfortunately it's out of my price range to buy. Here's my question to the masses.

1. What are your thoughts about the suitability of this coat at a modern formal highland affair? I know that some of our esteemed members have emphasized that "cookie cutter" formal wear is to be avoided if possible...but that there are also some general guiding principals as well. Would a coat such as this make one appear socially awkward (or worse yet, inept?) or as having flair and panache?

2. What type of vest and collar could a collarless coat such as this be worn with (aside from that historical style shown). Could this look be modernized by wearing a modern white cotton pique vest and hard front wing collar shirt (ala white tie)? Would it look awkward with black tie?

3. If I were to make my own based on this example...in perhaps, say, green velvet...what modifications would you suggest, if any?

Nothing wrong with this doublet at all! It is perfectly suitable for evening dress.

There are any number of possible waistcoats you can wear with this: tartan, white pique, velvet coloured cloth of all sorts, even tapestry. I would more than likely wear a jabot with this, but I can envision a white bow tie being worn, with a winged collar. Please, please, make sure the collar is detachable, so that it will be the proper height!

I see no need for any "modifications"--although I might just want the jacket to be a bit longer.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I can't remember who posted a link to this, but I love it:

MacKenzie Frain 1822 Commemorative Coatee

Unfortunately it's out of my price range to buy. Here's my question to the masses.

1. What are your thoughts about the suitability of this coat at a modern formal highland affair? I know that some of our esteemed members have emphasized that "cookie cutter" formal wear is to be avoided if possible...but that there are also some general guiding principals as well. Would a coat such as this make one appear socially awkward (or worse yet, inept?) or as having flair and panache?

As sandy and others have said there is nothing wrong with this jacket at all-- I might tone down the trim (all that gold makes it look a bit circusy). My concern would be that you might not wear it quite as often as you might wear a regulation doublet.

2. What type of vest and collar could a collarless coat such as this be worn with (aside from that historical style shown). Could this look be modernized by wearing a modern white cotton pique vest and hard front wing collar shirt (ala white tie)? Would it look awkward with black tie?

I personally think this looks best as shown, silk brocade waistcoat, ruffles and all. That said, because of the way the jacket closes (or doesn't actually) I think it might look a tad "naked" worn with white tie, and would probably look better with black tie and a low cut tartan waistcoat. A wing collar would be the only collar that would work with this jacket, in my opinion.

3. If I were to make my own based on this example...in perhaps, say, green velvet...what modifications would you suggest, if any?

Two modifications: First, don't make it out of velvet. Velvet shows creases like nobody's business, and in some situations it can be insufferably hot. Second, I would "tone down" the trim-- again, in my opinion, the gold/yellow trim seems to cheapen the look of the jacket. If it were me I'd go for rifle green, black braid, and cut steel buttons --which I feel would add a degree of sophistication to an already elegant coatee.

Oh, and I could learn to hate you for having broad shoulders and a narrow waist.