Questions on the Newsome 4yrd Box Pleat or 8yrd Knife Pleat?

[iustus]

Hello all,

I have a question or two for all those folks who wear a 4yrd Newsome Box pleat kilt.

I am thinking about another kilt and have been for some time now. I wear 16oz 8yrd K. Lare in black, a Lake Superior Highlands surplus kilt in 18oz MacGillivray 6yrd (this is mostly for hiking and the likes) and my old MacRae in 14oz 7yrds by Higgins from when I was in Highschool (had it re-sewn).
The question is really about a 7-8yrd knife pleat tartan kilt or 4yrd box pleat Newsome in that same tartan (Cleric Ancient).

Newsome's 4yrd BxPlt kilt gets rave reviews by just about everybody I’ve heard from but I’d like to hear to also hear the differences that would make you wear an 8yrd over the 4yrd on occasion.

If you folks who wear the 4yrd box pleat would share,
What are the difference in wearing and dressing in the 8yrd KnfPlt and the 4yrd BxPlt?
What are the different considerations in: Hot humid weather, Cold windy weather, Formal affairs in North America and in Scotland, or in England, or where ever you might live?
How about when playing the pipes (for pipers) or for daywear?
What surprised you about the difference between the two forms.
What do you prefer in the 8yrd that the 4yrd doesn’t do?
What about the 4yrd that the 8yrd doesn’t do?

I realize these are two different kilts and I imagine they both have their special qualities. I hope we can tease out some of these differences.

Maybe Matt will chime in as well: I’m guessing he may have a good deal to say.

Thank you all for your kind consideration.

Peace,

Justin

[Downunder Kilt]

I have one 4 yard box pleat from Matt and waiting on another. The first thing you notice is the difference in weight, not the cloth weight, but the weight of the kilt as a whole. Mine are 16oz tartan. When you put them on, compared to a tank, you will be amazed at the lightness. I find them ideal for functions where you know you will be dancing or at places where you are going to be standing all day.

As I am on the other side of the world I have yet to wear them in summer, but I have not found it too cold to wear in winter, or too fragile to stand up to a decent wind. The only difference I see is in the swoosh/swing factor, being that there are less pleats and yardage in the rear. (not really a big concern to me)

I have also found that, when in conversation with people who know something about kilts, it is a great discussion point as most have not seen the style before.

[ccga3359]

Here in Ontario (Canada) I'd prefer the warmth of an 8yd knife pleated but my newsome box pleat in the heat (and humidity) of summer. And yes you definately notice the weight difference. I dislike the sensation of all that weight hanging off of my butt as compared to the box pleat. Also consider Matt's strap system on the left hip. Much easier to do up as the buckle is actually on the front of the rear apron and no hole in the kilt for the strap. Consider also the cost savings of using only four yards of wool. I highly recommend a boxpleat in your collection, especially if you're keeping your kilt collection small.

[piperdbh]

Grant is right, as usual.
In regards to formality or "where-can-I-wear-a-certain-style-kilt", the box-pleat is interchangeable with a knife-pleat.
Tartan Hiker did a scientific experiment a couple of winters ago about the heat loss of the two different styles. Search for it and you'll have some very interesting reading.
The pleating options are different with a box-pleat, and I highly recommend the style. I have two of them and really like both of them. I hope you're not thinking that one style is better than the other, 'cause it ain't.

[xman]

Tartan Hiker did a scientific experiment a couple of winters ago about the heat loss of the two different styles. Search for it and you'll have some very interesting reading.

Yes, very interesting read.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...at-loss-44833/

[iustus]

Thank you all for your comments.

What I am hearing thus far is:

The 4yrd Bx Plt is a lighter garment on the hips.
Also the smaller amount of Tartan round the backside lends itself more easily to hot and humid seasons. (Having read Tartan Hikers study, I also appreciate the versatility)
There is also a factor of it being a fairly old style reborn in our times.

The 8yrd Knf Plt is a heavier garment and with the volume of Tartan round the backside lends itself more easily to a colder season (for some).
Also the swoosh and sway of the voluminous Knf Plt has a unique beauty to to it (perhaps beat out by the 8yrd Military Bx Plt varieties).

I don't suspect one is better than the other, they are simply different variations in my mind.

Has anyone uncovered a retrospective preference for one style under "these" conditions and the other under "those" conditions, other than the above kindly insights from folks?

Thanks again to everybody who has contributed here, they are a good help.

peace,
justin

[Howard Clark]

I pretty much just prefer Matt's 4 yard box pleated kilts at this point. I do own a couple of fine 8 yard knife pleated kilts (one by Barb T., and one by ChattanCat), but they seldom get worn unless it is cold, or the event is really formal.

Most of the work kilts that I wear now are 4 yard box pleated kilts, in similar style to what Matt makes, but machine sewn by myself. I do have a couple that are reverse kingussie style pleating, with no more than 6 yards in them and only four in one of them.

I have an Rkilts hemp "Mach Five" in hemp that I play paintball in. Love it for that, and it also works well for a work kilt.

I just like the lighter weight, and less to sit on, and less to deal with when sitting down, or moving in close quarters. I do think the eight yard kilt is more widely recognized as being a proper kilt, and it looks a bit more formal too I think.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I actually wrote a brief article for X Marks a while ago on just this question. I hope you've had a chance to review it, but if not....
CLICK HERE!

My current kilt collection consists of 10 four yard box pleated kilts (seven in 16 oz worsted wool, and three in tweed), two five yard knife pleated kilts (one in 12 oz worsted wool, one in tweed), one six yard knife pleated kilt (in 16 oz worsted) and two eight yard knife pleated kilts (in 16 oz worsted). All of them get at least some wear.

I live in western NC and we have a pretty mild climate all around. We have four distinct seasons of approximately equal duration; cold winters, mild springs, hot summers, and mild falls. I find that the kilts I reach for to wear most frequently, year round, regardless of weather, are my four yard 16 oz box pleated kilts.

In all truth, the only seasonal differences I have for my own kilt wearing is that my tweed kilts get more wear in the colder months. But that's really more of a difference in the texture and feel of the fabric itself rather than a function of the yardage or pleating style.

I'll wear my 8 yard knife pleated kilt only when I really feel like I want that extra "swish and swing." Otherwise, it's one of the lower yardage varieties, which are really quite comfortable to wear.

[Schiehallion]

Each to their own... but in my opinion having seen, but not worn a box pleat kilt, the look is more skirtlike than the knife pleat and to me a box pleat when worn does not have the splendor and swing. When worn it often forms more of a barrel shape when dancing walking and moving etc and reminds me and others, of girls' school uniform skirts in tartan. A look with which I would not like to be associated. To me it looks like a half hearted attempt at a kilt. I know this will ruffle many feathers but it is my opinion, and feel it should be consigned to history as a stage in the development of the kilt. The only box pleat I would wear would be the regimental box pleat... a knife pleated military kilt with a box on the edge of each knife pleat so designed to give equal swing to left and right when marching. The ultimate in design!

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Each to their own... but in my opinion having seen, but not worn a box pleat kilt, the look is more skirtlike than the knife pleat and to me a box pleat when worn does not have the splendor and swing. When worn it often forms more of a barrel shape when dancing walking and moving etc and reminds me and others, of girls' school uniform skirts in tartan. A look with which I would not like to be associated. To me it looks like a half hearted attempt at a kilt. I know this will ruffle many feathers but it is my opinion, and feel it should be consigned to history as a stage in the development of the kilt. The only box pleat I would wear would be the regimental box pleat... a knife pleated military kilt with a box on the edge of each knife pleat so designed to give equal swing to left and right when marching. The ultimate in design!

You are, of course, welcome to your opinion. I, for one, am perfectly content with the fact that people will have certain personal preferences when it comes to pleating style, fabric weight, yardage used, etc. When I am helping a client select a style of kilt, my guiding principle is always to try to get them into the kilt that they will enjoy and appreciate, and the truth is that's not always what I would select for myself.

However, comments such as "reminds me of school girl's skirts" and "half hearted attempt at a kilt" really are out of line.

Point of fact is that not everyone wants the grand "swish and swing" of an eight yard kilt and that's perfectly ok. It does not mean that their kilt is a "half hearted attempt" at anything. If one looks back at the overall history and development of the kilt over time, a four yard length was much more average for a kilt than anything approaching eight yards. This "staunch traditionalist" has no problem accepting a four yard kilt, regardless of pleat style.

And just for the record, in all my years wearing the kilt, only once, and exactly once, have I had anyone make a "school girl skirt" comment to me, and I was wearing an eight yard knife pleated kilt at the time.