Montrose/Sherrifmuir Doublets-Jabot Needed?

[BobsYourUncle]

I should like to get the opinion of the assembled throng, and especially of our most knowledgeable and experienced traditionalists, [Sandy, Jock Scott, Scott [MOR], et. al., as to whether a Montrose or Sherrifmuir REQUIRE a lace jabot? OR, is it equally acceptable to wear either of these doublets with a neck stock or cravat, as in the illustrations below:

Stock and bow:



In silk:



In use, albeit with a different type of coat:



In the ubiquitous images available online, and in Thompson's "So You're Going to Wear the Kilt", I only ever seen a lace jabot worn with either the Montrose or Sherrifmuir doublets. Is that the only acceptable neckwear?

What say you traditionalists--if I attended a formal gathering in Scotland, wore a Montrose or Sherrifmuir, and wore a neck stock or cravat similar to those pictured above, would you conclude that I was improperly attired, or would I be within acceptable, traditional bounds?

[MacLowlife]

I believe you can find pictures of the Sheriffmuir worn with other neckwear, but the trick with either of these jackets is to gauge the amount of room in what we might call the neck space. If your bow will fit, so will a regular black bow tie. My avatar picture shows a small black tie not quite tucked into the space of a military-styled jacket. I have looked again and would probably not wear it seriously (I wasn't wearing it seriously that night, either).

At the risk of insulting some X Markers,which I certainly do not mean to do, I am sure there are plenty of places in Scotland where you might go and nobody would have an idea whether or not your stock was traditional or just odd. You could easily be the only person there not wearing a PC or an Argyll. Before you wander into a really fancy party, I'd suggest that you review as many pictures as possible and talk with a good friend about what he wears.

But if you were merely using that Scots party as a standard of traditional highland wear, which is by its nature archaic and idiosyncratic, I think you are on solid ground. But the jabot does look good and it will grow on you.

[Jock Scot]

Speaking as a Sheriffmuir wearer(until it shrank and one of my sons has recyled it!) and fan, a black tie or a jabot can be worn depending on the occasion. An advantage of a Sheriffmuir. I did once wear a hunting stock(sort of cravat)with a SM to an event when I had forgoten my black tie. No one noticed which was rather good as I had been wearing it out hunting all day. I think the montrose demands a Jabot.

Hunting stock(UK definition)

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I agree completely with Jock-- a Montrose demands a jabot. There is more latitude with a Sheriffmuir, and either a jabot or hunting stock works really well. (If the waistcoat of your Sheriffmuir is tartan, cut on the bias, then I think a hunting stock really does lend itself extremely well to the overall look.)

[Santa Kona]

Does anyone have a good tailor source for a Sheriffmuir Jacket in the States?

[artificer]

I know Matt and the STM have what appears to be a wonderful offering HERE.

Eventually, I'd like to get one made up in the claret or green velvet.

[BobsYourUncle]

Speaking as a Sheriffmuir wearer(until it shrank and one of my sons has recyled it!) and fan, a black tie or a jabot can be worn depending on the occasion. An advantage of a Sheriffmuir. I did once wear a hunting stock(sort of cravat)with a SM to an event when I had forgoten my black tie. No one noticed which was rather good as I had been wearing it out hunting all day. I think the montrose demands a Jabot.

Hunting stock(UK definition)

I agree completely with Jock-- a Montrose demands a jabot. There is more latitude with a Sheriffmuir, and either a jabot or hunting stock works really well. (If the waistcoat of your Sheriffmuir is tartan, cut on the bias, then I think a hunting stock really does lend itself extremely well to the overall look.)

Gentlemen: Your comments, and those of MacRobert's, have persuaded me a Sheriffmuir is the doublet for me. My developing plan, as of this writing, is for a Sheriffmuir in black barathea, with MacPherson Dress tartan waistcoat cut on the bias, and MacPherson Dress tartan kilt, with Argyle hose in colors to match the kilt...if and when acheived, will post the results...

[creagdhubh]

Yes, I agree, the Montrose does in fact demand a jabot. I would argue, so does the Sheriffmuir as well-which goes particularly well with a 5 button tartan doublet, made either on the bias or not. Visit Kinloch-Anderson's website for examples. Quite smart.

[Jock Scot]

For those wanting to see a Sheriffmuir jacket with black tie, google "Highland Clans" and look in the "bespoke" section. Perhaps some one more cleaver than me could come up with a link?

[MacLowlife]

http://www.highlandclans.co.uk/Kilt_Doublets.html