over doing the bling?

[Jock Scot]

I thought I would start a new thread so as not to derail another very good thread.So I pose the question. Are we overdoing the bling for black tie events?

Do we need buckled shoes? Do we need a fly plaid? Do we need diced hose?For black tie events?

I am not saying you can't, but should we?

My view is that these forms of attire are really more relevant to the more formal "white tie" occasions. So what do you think?

[Downunder Kilt]

A good question Jock. I have been to 2 white tie events in my life ( I am over 50) and they were before I was kilted. Both were police events and naturally I wore police mess dress. (very much the same as military mess dress)

I have been to a number of Highland balls and other functions in Australia (black tie events) and have rarely seen fly plaids. I have seen several gentlement wearing buckle brogue/shoes, as I do, and a few more wearing diced or argyll hose.

When I go to a black tie function it is really the only time I ever get to "dress
to the nines" and I enjoy doing so. I am fortunate to be able to afford buckle shoes and diced hose. I like the look of them with the kilt, so I wear them.

I don't like fly plaids, so I don't wear one and as it is not a common sight here, I do not feel the compunction to wear one. If someone wants to wear one to a black tie event however, I say let them do it.

There are very few white tie events that a "commoner" as I am, would get invited to in Australia and as such I look to the black tie event as the peak that I am likely to reach.

[Jock Scot]

Yes I hear what you say and of course you like to wear what you have and that is fine and I quite accept that.

So perhaps this is more a "theoretical" question. Should you(we) wear the attire that you do-----many do----for black tie events?

My view is that it is "gilding the lily" a tad.

[English Bloke]

Nice to see you back Jock. I thought for a moment, when I read the word "banned" in another thread, That maybe you'd rocked the boat right over.

I think in respect to this debate, most folks don't get the opportunity to go to an actual, by invitation only, "white tie" dinner and if they do it's not an everyday event. But as Downunder said, they still like to dress well for the functions they do go to.

I hear what you're saying though and to a degree I agree. I can't be doing with fly plaids, buckle brogues or those "dreadful ghillies"... on me... I think it takes the eye off the Kilt I'm wearing.

It's my choice not to wear those extras though so when I'm standing next to a Bloke who does like more bling and when it's clear he's made a considerable effort, I'll complement him for it.

[artificer]

Yes I hear what you say and of course you like to wear what you have and that is fine and I quite accept that.

So perhaps this is more a "theoretical" question. Should you(we) wear the attire that you do-----many do----for black tie events?

My view is that it is "gilding the lily" a tad.

I'm not one of nature's "lily gilders", I'm the guy with seven black suits (who isn't an undertaker) . Once we start into the slightly archaic world of Highland fashion, I'm well out to sea. Gauntlet cuffs, big silver buttons and buckles, epaulettes... none of these are anywhere else in my wardrobe.

We've already established elsewhere that a black Argyll, three button waistcoat, black bow tie and black Oxfords are all nice, appropriate choices.

I prefer plain fronted tux shirts and turned down collars over pleats and wings.

I have a set of silver knot cuff links and studs that I much prefer to the black onyx run-of-the-mill. Would they work?

What would YOU wear as a choice for hose and other adornments (if any)?

[Sir William]

I suspect most of us attend few black tie affairs and probably have never attended a white tie event. Consequently, when the opportunity for fancy dress arises there is the urge to "dress to the nines" as Downunder Kilt suggested.

When living in California in the early 80s it was not uncommon to see a Montrose or similar jacket, jabot and laced cuffs, and the fly plaid to Scottish country dancing Balls. The men wanted to dress up in all their Scottish regalia and these were the only opportunities to do so. More recently I've seen much the same trend with of wearing of a fly plaid and buckled shoes with a PC or Argyll to a black tie affair.

Is this appropriate attire for the occasion? No. But no one was going to object because either they don't know the customary criteria regarding white and black tie attire, or more likely because we enjoy seeing the full regalia being worn.

Perhaps we are "guilding the lily" a bit, but consider the alternatives. I've seen blue jeans (denims) worn with a tux jacket to a black tie affair so I wouldn't be too surprised someday to see someone where soemthing like a ghillie shirt with their PC.

[davedove]

I really suspect that the more one attends such events, the simpler one likes to be. If someone only rarely attends, there would be a great desire to "use all you have." The more often you do it, the less you want to mess with all that stuff and you simplify. For instance, I don't do it a lot, maybe once or twice a year. I have a fly plaid and sometimes I use it, but sometimes I just don't want to bother. In reality, if one is kilted he already stands out from the crowd.

[Tobus]

Are we overdoing the bling for black tie events?

Fly plaids are an issue of their own (and some will argue they aren't appropriate or correct for any level of formality). But I don't see anything amiss with wearing buckle brogues or diced/Argyll hose for black tie events. Historically speaking, these items were worn every day by many people. So there's no real basis for relegating them to white tie only, is there? They certainly didn't start off as "formal wear". If they've been moved to the formal category of accessories, it's a modern idea, not one rooted in long tradition.

Personally, as my eye sees it, I think plain hose and brogues (or other non-buckle shoes) are great for daywear, but when moving up to the black tie level of formality, it behooves one to upgrade these items. That way, the outfit is upgraded evenly from the shoes to the jacket, instead of just being an above-the-waist upgrade in attire.

So I guess I'm taking the opposite tack. Instead of wearing plain hose for everything but the most formal of all occasions, I think we should be wearing plain hose only for the most casual occasions, and patterned hose for everything else. I even think patterned hose should be seen more often as daywear, with plain hose being relegated only to situations where one doesn't want to ruin a good pair of hose.

*edited to add:

To take it a step further, as another poster mentioned above, we have really seen a 'dressing down' of people over the centuries. In past centuries, people tended to wear very ornate and 'fancy' clothes compared to today. The portraits we see of Highlanders from the 1700s and 1800s attests to this. I can recall only a couple of them wearing plain hose. All the rest, even in casual situations, are wearing diced or otherwise patterned hose.

So I see the modern trend toward plain hose as a 'dressing down' effect, just like wearing blue jeans, flip-flops, and other casual attire have found their way into normal life. I'd rather revive the good old traditions of wearing the kilt with patterned hose and looking grand than to keep making it more casual and plain.

[McClef]

We all have our own views about what is "gilding the lily" and whether or not we like plaids or "dreadful ghillies" (as English Bloke so charmingly puts it ) or not.

But with white tie affairs being as rare as rocking horse do dos for the vast majority of us we make the choices of what we feel good in, not what others think we should feel good in at the more common, though still relatively infrequent, black tie events.

And John, I look forward to that compliment next time we are stood outside at Ferintosh having a quick smoke before a Burns Supper!

[English Bloke]

I'll be right there for you mate And the "dreadful ghillies" is a quote from another hornets nest of a thread about footwear from some time back...