To Black Watch or not to Black Watch?

[KEArnold]

Hello all, I'm new to the kilt wearing life and have some questions.

I have two Black Watch pattern kilts and one solid black. The BW kilts are for dressier occasions and my solid black is what I usually wear to the bars, downtown, shopping, basically anywhere. I wear nice dress shirts or polo shirts along with the black kilt belt and sporran of choice.

I'm usually warmly received by my fellow drinkers at the 'Irish' pub I go to in downtown Louisville (Kentucky, USA) and get the inevitable questions kilt wearers usually get.

I also participate at my renn faire/ highland games and there I wear my period shirt, baldric with basket hilt sword, targe (hand made, thank you), sporran (sorry modern design until I can buy a 1600's design one), either a solid black beret or a tam with a Black Watch pattern around the head band. And sadly because it's all I own, my lightweight BW tartan kilt.

Here's my questions on the Black Watch tartan:

When was it first produced as a pattern?

How far off am I from being dressed properly for a Scotsman form the late 1600's?

Can I get away with wearing a kilt and not a great kilt for this costuming?

Modern note. I'm going to a reunion and I plan on wearing the following:

Black Watch kilt, white dress shirt, neck tie (Black Watch pattern), cream hose with BW flashes, dress shoes (hopefully brogues if I can find them), sgian dubh, dress sporran with chain belt, a black Prince Charlie vest and MAYBE a Black Watch fly pinned to the shoulder. Yes? No? What do I need to lose/add?

[Orthzar]

I don't know when the Black Watch tartan was first woven, so I can't help you here, sorry.

As far as the kilt vs. great kilt thing, I have a very reliable suspicion that unless there are some Xmarks at the event no one will ever know the difference. I would go with what you got, unless of course you like the great kilt over the wee kilt.

As far as the reunion outfit. I would make sure that the tie is one of those pencil ties, since regular ties will look rather fat when worn so short. To go ever further, I would say that unless this is an extremely special reunion you might be dressing up a bit too much. Heck, your proposed outfit is good enough a for wedding, which isn't bad; there just isn't any reason to put on more than is appropriate unless you like the look. Heck, the kilt, hose, button-down shirt, black shoes, black sporran, black belt and tie are plenty for such an event. If your sgian dubh is unsharpened, then I would leave it at home, because it is then an ornament for weddings, funerals, and piping. If, however, your sgian dubh is nice and sharp, then I would totally wear it, because the real ones seem to look better than the unsharpened ones. At the very least, the fly plaid might be over the top, almost on the costume and superficiality side.

Keep it simple and sharp and no one will be distracted by anything other than your kilt and its pleats.

[Zardoz]

A pretty good history can be found here; http://albanach.org/blackwatch.htm

[Jordan]

Hello all, I'm new to the kilt wearing life and have some questions.
Snip

Modern note. I'm going to a reunion and I plan on wearing the following:

Black Watch kilt, white dress shirt, neck tie (Black Watch pattern), cream hose with BW flashes, dress shoes (hopefully brogues if I can find them), sgian dubh, dress sporran with chain belt, a black Prince Charlie vest and MAYBE a Black Watch fly pinned to the shoulder. Yes? No? What do I need to lose/add?

Im sorry I know no history what so ever so I cant help there, however as to your outfit for the reunion,
Theres a lot of tartan goin on there may i suggest Kilt, white shirt, tie maybe green (something which will go with yout kilt but not tartan) Sporran, Hose (a lot of pepople dont like cream or white hose but if you do great) Flashes (Red Is allways good).

Is the event black tie? If so PC and vest is fine no need for a fly plaid.
If not but still formal Argyle jacket and five button waistcoat or is its just smart and you dont think everyone else will be wearing jackets dont bother shirt and tie would be fine.

If your sgian dubh is unsharpened, then I would leave it at home, because it is then an ornament for weddings, funerals, and piping. If, however, your sgian dubh is nice and sharp, then I would totally wear it, because the real ones seem to look better than the unsharpened ones. At the very least, the fly plaid might be over the top, almost on the costume and superficiality side.

I am very courious about this statment. Unless your waving your sgian about nobody will know if its sharp or not, Mine is acctualy a bottle opener and until i pull it out for use nobody even knows.

Some sgian's bought from un reputable sellers do look costumey but to say all unsharpend ones do is too much of a generalisation.

Jordan

All coments are my opinions only and worth what you paid for them

[Orthzar]

I am very courious about this statment. Unless your waving your sgian about nobody will know if its sharp or not, Mine is acctualy a bottle opener and until i pull it out for use nobody even knows.

Some sgian's bought from un reputable sellers do look costumey but to say all unsharpend ones do is too much of a generalisation.

Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with faux sgian dubhs, nor do I care if other people wear them; such is their prerogative. What I meant was that I would not carry a faux sgian dubh, because I like to own and possess things that are useful; fashion is a secondary consideration once I have everything I need.

That being said, I actually would wear a sgian dubh that has a bottle-opener in place of any blade, because it is both useful and a good conversation piece. Faux sgian dubhs, on the other hand, are neither useful nor very much of a conversation piece beyond, "why not a real one?"

At any rate, who cares? If it is a special occassion, ornaments are expected, so no complaints from me.

[Jordan]

Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with faux sgian dubhs, nor do I care if other people wear them; such is their prerogative. What I meant was that I would not carry a faux sgian dubh, because I like to own and possess things that are useful; fashion is a secondary consideration once I have everything I need.

That being said, I actually would wear a sgian dubh that has a bottle-opener in place of any blade, because it is both useful and a good conversation piece. Faux sgian dubhs, on the other hand, are neither useful nor very much of a conversation piece beyond, "why not a real one?"

At any rate, who cares? If it is a special occassion, ornaments are expected, so no complaints from me.

Ok I can kinda see what you mean the obviously cheap plastic ones are a bit rubbish. I prefer something which is acctualy useful too thats why Mine is a bottle opener beacuse wandering around with a sharp blade is not going to be apreciated.

I do think we're seeing the same things from different angles, and I agree about the little extra bling for special occasions being a good thing.

Jordan

[KEArnold]

I don't know when the Black Watch tartan was first woven, so I can't help you here, sorry.

As far as the kilt vs. great kilt thing, I have a very reliable suspicion that unless there are some Xmarks at the event no one will ever know the difference. I would go with what you got, unless of course you like the great kilt over the wee kilt.

As far as the reunion outfit. I would make sure that the tie is one of those pencil ties, since regular ties will look rather fat when worn so short. To go ever further, I would say that unless this is an extremely special reunion you might be dressing up a bit too much. Heck, your proposed outfit is good enough a for wedding, which isn't bad; there just isn't any reason to put on more than is appropriate unless you like the look. Heck, the kilt, hose, button-down shirt, black shoes, black sporran, black belt and tie are plenty for such an event. If your sgian dubh is unsharpened, then I would leave it at home, because it is then an ornament for weddings, funerals, and piping. If, however, your sgian dubh is nice and sharp, then I would totally wear it, because the real ones seem to look better than the unsharpened ones. At the very least, the fly plaid might be over the top, almost on the costume and superficiality side.

Keep it simple and sharp and no one will be distracted by anything other than your kilt and its pleats.

FINAL Outfit was this:

http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...2/DSC_0002.jpg

[Burly Brute]

...the wee kilt.

[Bog Trotter]

First of all, congratulations on your decision to wear the kilt. I too own a Black Watch kilt. I'm no expert by any means, but perhaps I can give you some useful info.
1.The Black Watch tartan was known as the Government Sett, and was based on a Campbell tartan. I'm not certain when it was first produced as a pattern, but some Highland Independent Companies in British service was wearing the Government Sett as early as the 1730's.
2. The Plaid was being worn in the 1690's and more than one tartan was often worn at the same time. The clan tartans we know today did not exist in the 1600's. I know that some would argue this. As for wearing your modern kilt to a Renn Fair, it's not correct, but again, not many of the general public would know this. The plaid of Government Sett was still being worn by Highland troops in both Europe and America during the Seven Years War, and the French and Indian War. The filabeg, or small kilt was issued to some Highland troops serving with Rogers Rangers in 1758 during the F&I War.
3. As for your reunion, I would personally opt to wear a black tie, and save the Fly for a more formal occasion. If you feel comfortable with what you have and that's all you can afford, by all means wear it. I'm no expert on Scottish attire and mileage may vary.

[macwilkin]

First of all, congratulations on your decision to wear the kilt. I too own a Black Watch kilt. I'm no expert by any means, but perhaps I can give you some useful info.
1.The Black Watch tartan was known as the Government Sett, and was based on a Campbell tartan. I'm not certain when it was first produced as a pattern, but some Highland Independent Companies in British service was wearing the Government Sett as early as the 1730's.
2. The Plaid was being worn in the 1690's and more than one tartan was often worn at the same time. The clan tartans we know today did not exist in the 1600's. I know that some would argue this. As for wearing your modern kilt to a Renn Fair, it's not correct, but again, not many of the general public would know this. The plaid of Government Sett was still being worn by Highland troops in both Europe and America during the Seven Years War, and the French and Indian War. The filabeg, or small kilt was issued to some Highland troops serving with Rogers Rangers in 1758 during the F&I War.
3. As for your reunion, I would personally opt to wear a black tie, and save the Fly for a more formal occasion. If you feel comfortable with what you have and that's all you can afford, by all means wear it. I'm no expert on Scottish attire and mileage may vary.

See Matt's article above; The late noted tartan scholar Jamie Scarlett proposed that regimental tartans gave rise to clan tartans, and not the other way around.

I can't say I've seen any source that support the claim that Highlanders seconded to Roger's Rangers wore a kilt; there were a number of Highland regiments serving in North America during the F & I of course -- do you have such a source?

Bottom line: the Black Watch tartan would not be appropriate for a Renaissance Fair.

T.