X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 57

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    16th September 09
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    3,979
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Arrow Freedom in Tradition

    "The Highland dress is essentially a 'free' dress -- that is to say, a man's taste and circumstances must alone be permitted to decide when and where and how he should wear it... I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed."
    -- The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine, The Kilt & How to Wear It, 1901.


    There are many threads here on Xmarks discussing the 'rules' of THCD; rules can be especially valuable in guiding a beginner through potentially very foreign sartorial territory. In my opinion, finding freedom within rules is where creativity lives...

    For someone who already know the rules and has internalized them through experience, where does one find freedom within THCD? How does one express oneself as an individual within tradition?

    Or is Erskine wrong, Highland dress is not essentially a 'free' dress, and there is no room for freedom, creativity, or individuality in THCD?
    Last edited by CMcG; 2nd December 10 at 01:12 PM.
    - Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
    - An t'arm breac dearg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    25th March 08
    Location
    Louisville, Kentucky
    Posts
    2,165
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CMcG View Post
    "The Highland dress is essentially a 'free' dress -- that is to say, a man's taste and circumstances must alone be permitted to decide when and where and how he should wear it... I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed."
    -- The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine, The Kilt & How to Wear It, 1901.


    There are many threads here on Xmarks discussing the 'rules' of THCD; rules can be especially valuable in guiding a beginner through potentially very foreign sartorial territory. In my opinion, finding freedom within rules is where creativity lives...

    For someone who already know the rules and has internalized them through experience, where does one find freedom within THCD? How does one express oneself as an individual within tradition?

    Or is Erskine wrong, Highland dress is not essentially a 'free' dress, and there is no room for freedom, creativity, or individuality in THCD?
    Erskine is correct, in that Highland Dress is a "free dress." One expresses this freedom in the cut and fabric of jackets, in the colour, pattern of hose, in the choice of buttons, in the display of one's armorial bearings. You can wear one sporran one day, another the next. You can choose to wear a bonnet, or not. Wear a jabot or stock in the evening, or choose to wear a bow tie instead. The possibilities are endless, actually.

    Take, for example, one of my evening doublets. It is made of blue silk velvet. In consultation with my tailor we chose a distinctive cut--similar to a "regulation doublet" but slightly different. I wanted coloured facings, a working button hole on the left lapel, pockets underneath all the flaps. Having the freedom to make clothes the way YOU want them is what Erskine had in mind. My doublet may not be to everyone's liking or taste, but it is exactly what I want!


  3. #3
    Join Date
    25th December 08
    Location
    Lotus Land
    Posts
    2,193
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Given the variety of ensembles and the confusion which can arise, this makes complete sense to me. In fact it focuses the issue clearly. Perhaps we should even stop referring to the 'rules' and comment upon the 'general guidelines' or simply 'tradition'.

    Somebody should inform the kilt hire establishment.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    9th September 09
    Location
    Soup-erior, CO
    Posts
    853
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by xman View Post
    Given the variety of ensembles and the confusion which can arise, this makes complete sense to me. In fact it focuses the issue clearly. Perhaps we should even stop referring to the 'rules' and comment upon the 'general guidelines' or simply 'tradition'.

    Somebody should inform the kilt hire establishment.
    Somebody go wake up Keith Richards and see if he has a Kilted Codex in his library.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    22nd January 07
    Location
    Morganton, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,173
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CMcG View Post
    For someone who already know the rules and has internalized them through experience, where does one find freedom within THCD?
    I don't presume to put myself in this category, but it is a subject to which I've given some thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by CMcG View Post
    There are many threads here on Xmarks discussing the 'rules' of THCD; rules can be especially valuable in guiding a beginner through potentially very foreign sartorial territory. In my opinion, finding freedom within rules is where creativity lives...
    Quote Originally Posted by CMcG View Post
    How does one express oneself as an individual within tradition?
    The enemy of creativity is not rules, the enemy of creativity is a willingness to buy the cheaply made and shoddy products that the Highland dress market is currently flooded with.

    There is plenty of room for creativity and individuality. Creativity and individuality "live", though, in the small things that often get overlooked by new kilt-wearers. Almost every aspect of highland dress can be individualized.

    For example, how many folks do you know who, having bought a kilt, buy a black Argyll jacket with chrome-colored buttons to wear with? I know many. Now, there is a time and place for the black Argyll with chrome-colored buttons. How much better, though, to purchase a well-made kilt jacket in a nice patterned tweed which will be one of a kind? That's creative and individual!

    Consider kilt hose. How many folks buy a kilt and then make the "tartan sandwich", as Brooke has described it (white shirt, tartan kilt, white hose)? I know many. How much better to purchase a nice pair of hose in an interesting color? The salmon/pink hose that HG the Duke of Argyll wears may not be to your liking, but there's much room to be individual and creative: consider all the colors, patterned tops, handknit patterns, etc. available. For evening wear why settle for plain hose when there are Argyll and Diced hose available?

    Likewise, instead of buying one of the solid color neckties sold by the tartan mills in order to purposely match the colors in your tartan, why not choose a nice repp stripe, club, or foulard tie? The same goes for shirts- why not country checks, bengal stripes, blues and pinks, instead of plain old white?

    Or perhaps sporrans? Instead of the standard rabbit fur, chrome cantle "dress sporran" why not a traditional hair sporran or an animal mask? For daywear, why not a unique design in rich brown leather instead of the cheap black pasteboard variety that is often worn?

    In all these things there is plenty of room to be creative and show individual tastes while maintaining a very traditional appearance.

    Cordially,

    David

  6. #6
    Join Date
    19th October 09
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,676
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Hear, hear

    I'd like to add my faint echo of what has been said above. First, we may as well keep thinking of rules, even if they are mostly suggestions. Next, I believe the details are the thing:

    Cut and color and texture do not have to be the same every time. Combination of patterns, individual twists like cufflinks and buttons ( I am getting a good covet on all over again for those salmon buttons) and overall confidence all work together to make this "free dress" individual and personal.

    Finally, I suspect the answer is never going to be at the Rental Shops.

    Here is a picture of two "gentlemen" in Highland dress. The one on the right is wearing a PC converted from a tailcoat in a great vintage doeskin. Note the pocket and pocket square. He is wearing a saxon formal vest in a jacquard silk. His tie is the stripe of the organization whose function he is attending. Next to him, a person of dubious character is wearing a made to measure red coatee. I have it on good authority that he wore his shirt to work all day. And yes, he is wearing a tartan bow tie. Both are wearing Stewart tartan kilts, one in Ancient hunting colo(u)rs and one in the Royal Stewart. Love it or hate it, it is pretty much Traditional Highland Dress as practiced in these parts:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/MacLowlife/20101130#





    Last edited by MacLowlife; 2nd December 10 at 03:20 PM. Reason: photo
    Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife

  7. #7
    Join Date
    6th February 10
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    8,180
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by davidlpope View Post
    I don't presume to put myself in this category, but it is a subject to which I've given some thought.





    The enemy of creativity is not rules, the enemy of creativity is a willingness to buy the cheaply made and shoddy products that the Highland dress market is currently flooded with.

    There is plenty of room for creativity and individuality. Creativity and individuality "live", though, in the small things that often get overlooked by new kilt-wearers. Almost every aspect of highland dress can be individualized.

    For example, how many folks do you know who, having bought a kilt, buy a black Argyll jacket with chrome-colored buttons to wear with? I know many. Now, there is a time and place for the black Argyll with chrome-colored buttons. How much better, though, to purchase a well-made kilt jacket in a nice patterned tweed which will be one of a kind? That's creative and individual!

    Consider kilt hose. How many folks buy a kilt and then make the "tartan sandwich", as Brooke has described it (white shirt, tartan kilt, white hose)? I know many. How much better to purchase a nice pair of hose in an interesting color? The salmon/pink hose that HG the Duke of Argyll wears may not be to your liking, but there's much room to be individual and creative: consider all the colors, patterned tops, handknit patterns, etc. available. For evening wear why settle for plain hose when there are Argyll and Diced hose available?

    Likewise, instead of buying one of the solid color neckties sold by the tartan mills in order to purposely match the colors in your tartan, why not choose a nice repp stripe, club, or foulard tie? The same goes for shirts- why not country checks, bengal stripes, blues and pinks, instead of plain old white?

    Or perhaps sporrans? Instead of the standard rabbit fur, chrome cantle "dress sporran" why not a traditional hair sporran or an animal mask? For daywear, why not a unique design in rich brown leather instead of the cheap black pasteboard variety that is often worn?

    In all these things there is plenty of room to be creative and show individual tastes while maintaining a very traditional appearance.

    Cordially,

    David
    Hear hear David, I completely agree with you!!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    6th February 10
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    8,180
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have enjoyed this topic immensely and agree with all of you - I especially liked Sandy's, Scott's, and David's comments. I feel fortunate to share your sentiments and approach to being traditional and creative with Highland attire. Well said gents, well said.

    Yours aye,

  9. #9
    Join Date
    19th October 09
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,676
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    not that one is needed...

    But here is an analogy...

    We are dealing with something we might term Dinna Ken wha' or as our friend Robert calls it Je ne Sais Quoi....

    That is to say, there ARE obvious things one can change to make one's dress individual, but the better part is in subtlety and style. Sure, you can wear a red doublet or a tartan waistcoat where others wear black, but the style that distinguishes need not be obvious.

    Consider a room full of guys in navy blazers and khaki pants, or maybe navy blazers and grey flannels. If they are actually the exact same trousers and jackets, they may look very much alike, but if they are wearing the same COLOR jackets and trousers, the variation will be apparent, even if you can't quite put your finger on it- hence Dinna Ken. And what is so hard to put one's finger on is good tailoring, careful fitting, distinctive fabrics and the patina of age and quality. Look for the man who looks better than everybody else, even if he is dressed "the same" as everybody else.

    For some people, tailoring accentuates the physique. For others, it is camouflage. In either case, it takes into account the shape of the wearer, not just the shape of a pattern in a factory. It is always worth what it costs.

    Similarly, many of us can't afford to buy brand new, even off the rack brand new. A virtue of the necessity of cobbling together is the style that emerges from the process of tinkering and modifying and altering. I'd like to think that comes from paying attention, instead of just paying a lot of money.

    It certainly comes from the good advice and kind example of many people in this thread. Thanks.
    Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife

  10. #10
    Join Date
    17th March 10
    Location
    Hay Springs, NE
    Posts
    1,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MacLowlife View Post
    But here is an analogy...

    We are dealing with something we might term Dinna Ken wha' or as our friend Robert calls it Je ne Sais Quoi....

    Similarly, many of us can't afford to buy brand new, even off the rack brand new. A virtue of the necessity of cobbling together is the style that emerges from the process of tinkering and modifying and altering. I'd like to think that comes from paying attention, instead of just paying a lot of money.
    That's a very good point. The pics posted earlier illustrate it very well. The "PC" in the photo was fashioned from a used tailcoat. At a glance it looks like another PC but something is different, though it isn't immediately apparent. If the workmanship is good it is a one-of-a-kind peice that is unique in an understated way.

    I wish I had known what I know now when we had our wedding. I wore my kilt, but skipped the PC and went with an Argyle (a rental no less)in black with white shirt and black tie. It's the exact same one we see in every rental shop, almost every company website, etc. The whole kit looked good, but didn't look "like me." If I had it to do over I would have picked up a tux jacket or tailcoat and went to work on it adding all those details I've come to love.

    One thing that I also have noticed is that it's easy to spot the guys who are truly comfortable in a kilt--comfortable enough to "do their own thing". It took me wearing it frequently for months, as everyday clothing, before my own style started to show. In my case I had to get comfortable enough to see it as "just another article of clothing" before I could shake the idea that it has to be worn this way or that. Now I find myself mixing black and brown leathers(if HRH Prince Charles can do it, why can't I), wearing flashes or ties that aren't of a color in the tartan, wearing a grey jacket with the blue waistcoat I just got. My wife says I'm starting to look like I dress in the dark...after seeing a lot of pics, many being of royalty and aristocracy in Scotland(no offense intended), I take it as a compliment because that's what I though of them at first! I know better now--thanks in large part to the folks on this forum.

    That could be one of the things leading some to see the guidlines as chisled in stone rules. Those who only wear a kilt for special occasions often have one or two "outfits" that fit withing the confines of what is often preached as "proper" and haven't spent enough time between the apron and pleats to be comfortable breaking out of the mold. Others seem to see it as a sacred thing and hence it must be done in an almost ritualistic way. That is how they are comfortable doing it, and that's perfectly fine. I'm not a kilt-kop. I noticed a long time ago that even in a wall of black suits the guy who wears a unique tie and shirt stands out--not because it's flashy or bright, but because he looks (and is) comfortable enough to let his persona show through.
    The grass is greener on the other side of the fence...and it's usually greenest right above the septic tank.
    Allen

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. exceptions to tradition: the Queen
    By Mike_Oettle in forum Kilt Advice
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 3rd November 10, 09:15 AM
  2. Tradition?
    By Tetley in forum General Kilt Talk
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 2nd March 10, 07:23 AM
  3. Value vs. Tradition
    By ChubRock in forum Kilt Advice
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 21st August 09, 03:50 PM
  4. American Boxing Day Tradition
    By James MacMillan in forum General Kilt Talk
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 11th January 08, 04:09 PM
  5. How old is a tradition?
    By Alan H in forum General Kilt Talk
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 24th September 07, 04:07 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0