Is Lochcarron Losing Their Edge?

[xman]

... literally.

Over the past few months at various kilted gatherings I've listened to gentlemen of knowledge discuss the changes in Lochcarron's kilt cloth. I didn't want to believe that one of the best mills in Scotland could be losing its edge. I am sewing some kilts from Strome fabric now and have been troubled with the quality. There are three issues:

1. The hand or texture of the cloth is very fluffy. It's a little hard to sew because it won't hold a fold very well. Not even as well as Marton Mills' cloth which is half the price. I'm just coming off working with Strathmore W60 and the difference is palpable in this regard. Perhaps this is partially due to the fact that they are switching to jet looms?

2. I was quite shocked after tearing the fabric for the first kilt to discover that the sett does not match up one edge to the other! The sett was unaligned by almost an inch. Luckily I had enough for a second kilt so I had to figure out which side would work and ensure that the other edge would work for the next kilt and luckily they do. I don't know what I would have done if they didn't. I don't have time to send the cloth back and wait for a replacement and even then I'm not confident that it would be any better the second time around.

3. Perhaps most disappointing of all is that the tucked selvedge has loose strands which weren't tucked properly in several places along the edge. Rather than turn directly back on each other they skipped a few threads, leaving a hung loop or thread and doubling back in the wrong colour. I've pulled them free and will stitch them down on the inside of the kilt to make it look as good as I can. You can see the edge here:



All this adds up to quite a disappointing purchase and as a result, even though this is the only example I have worked with, I'm not sure I can recommend this product if it is indicative of the 'new' Strome. I'm looking forward to working with Dalgleish's K1 and have plans to sew with House of Edgar's Old & Rare line. Getting my hands on Geoffrey Tailor's cloth and Fraser and Kirkbright's as well should give me a clear example of the major players, but as things stand so far, I'd put Lochcarron's kilt cloth near the bottom of the list and not the top.

X

[KiltedKnome]

... All this adds up to quite a disappointing purchase and as a result, even though this is the only example I have worked with, I'm not sure I can recommend this product if it is indicative of the 'new' Strome. I'm looking forward to working with Dalgleish's K1 and have plans to sew with House of Edgar's Old & Rare line. Getting my hands on Geoffrey Tailor's cloth and Fraser and Kirkbright's as well should give me a clear example of the major players, but as things stand so far, I'd put Lochcarron's kilt cloth near the bottom of the list and not the top.

X

Have you tried contacting Lochcarron to let me know about your concerns with the tartan?

[RockyR]

I find that each mill's cloth has it's own set of 'qualities' that differentiate it from another. That's part of the beauty of getting differnt cloths from different mills... each is unique and has it's own properties.

Yes, Lochcarron's Strome cloth is a little 'spongier' / 'fluffier' than other mills (their 16 oz is... not 13 oz Braeraich), but I don't find it any different from Lochcarron Strome cloth from 6 years ago to now. They are consistent that way (at least to me). I've come to accept, "it's just the way their cloth is". In MY opinion, it does make it SLIGHTLY more difficult to line up the pleats, BUT that same property makes the cloth MUCH easier to iron. THEIR cloth lays flat and takes much less pressure / steam to hold an edge that HOE's 13 oz cloth.

The splicing not matching up dead on is an issue I've seen with them a couple times. The worst scenario I had was one which was 1/2" off. When I contacted them, they indicated that it may have been an issue with the tension at the finishers. With a few minutes steaming at the ironing table, I was able to stretch the cloth to match up dead on and it was a non-issue. It's not on EVERY piece of cloth, just on a few... let's say 5 out of 100. I know that this issue was very prevalent with Kirkbright's cloth a few years back (other kiltmakers up here have commented on that as well). Of the 3 or 4 pieces of fabric I used of F & K, every one mis-matched by 3/4" to 1" at the edge. I no longer use their cloth at all.

The errant thread along the tuck selvedge being 'tucked' at the wrong spot does happen on occasion with every mill who uses a tuck selvedge. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it happens any more on Lochcarron's cloth than on MM or Strathmore or HOE's Nevis range or Batley's. I just inspect the cloth's selvedge and where I see a mis-matched thread, I pull it out gently and trim it off. At the same time, look at Dalgliesh's K1 cloth. As an example... If there's a white stripe outlined by black stripes, often times the black thread will 'jump' over the white thread along the selvedge and re-start on the other side of the white. I don't say this to be negative about Dalgliesh, but to point out that all mills' materials have different 'qualities' that can be seen as flaws.

Each kiltmaker I know has their own "favorite" mill to work with. Personal prefferences.

[Paul Henry]

I find that each mill's cloth has it's own set of 'qualities' that differentiate it from another. That's part of the beauty of getting differnt cloths from different mills... each is unique and has it's own properties.

Yes, Lochcarron's Strome cloth is a little 'spongier' / 'fluffier' than other mills (their 16 oz is... not 13 oz Braeraich), but I don't find it any different from Lochcarron Strome cloth from 6 years ago to now. They are consistent that way (at least to me). I've come to accept, "it's just the way their cloth is". In MY opinion, it does make it SLIGHTLY more difficult to line up the pleats, BUT that same property makes the cloth MUCH easier to iron. THEIR cloth lays flat and takes much less pressure / steam to hold an edge that HOE's 13 oz cloth.

The splicing not matching up dead on is an issue I've seen with them a couple times. The worst scenario I had was one which was 1/2" off. When I contacted them, they indicated that it may have been an issue with the tension at the finishers. With a few minutes steaming at the ironing table, I was able to stretch the cloth to match up dead on and it was a non-issue. It's not on EVERY piece of cloth, just on a few... let's say 5 out of 100. I know that this issue was very prevalent with Kirkbright's cloth a few years back (other kiltmakers up here have commented on that as well). Of the 3 or 4 pieces of fabric I used of F & K, every one mis-matched by 3/4" to 1" at the edge. I no longer use their cloth at all.

The errant thread along the tuck selvedge being 'tucked' at the wrong spot does happen on occasion with every mill who uses a tuck selvedge. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it happens any more on Lochcarron's cloth than on MM or Strathmore or HOE's Nevis range or Batley's. I just inspect the cloth's selvedge and where I see a mis-matched thread, I pull it out gently and trim it off. At the same time, look at Dalgliesh's K1 cloth. As an example... If there's a white stripe outlined by black stripes, often times the black thread will 'jump' over the white thread along the selvedge and re-start on the other side of the white. I don't say this to be negative about Dalgliesh, but to point out that all material have different 'qualities' that can be seen as flaws.

Each kiltmaker I

Well said Rocky, as kiltmakers we often face challenges on fabrics,and yes it owuld be nice if all the weavers produced perfect fabrics, but the truth of hte matter is that they don't, they never have been perfect and probably never will.

[RockyR]

Well said Rocky, as kiltmakers we often face challenges on fabrics,and yes it owuld be nice if all the weavers produced perfect fabrics, but the truth of hte matter is that they don't, they never have been perfect and probably never will.

Exactly... and it's part of the 'artistry' (if you'll allow me the indulgence to use that term) of kiltmaking. Taking someone else's cloth (imperfections and all) and making a perfectly tailored garment from it. The end result should not have any visible flaws... part of our job is to find them and either FIX them or get new cloth if they can't be fixed.

[figheadair]

At the same time, look at Dalgliesh's K1 cloth. As an example... If there's a white stripe outlined by black stripes, often times the black thread will 'jump' over the white thread along the selvedge and re-start on the other side of the white. I don't say this to be negative about Dalgliesh, but to point out that all mills' materials have different 'qualities' that can be seen as flaws.

This is the result of 'floating' the weft and is where the shuttle carries the thread along the selvedge until the next time it's required. When the cloth is finished and mended these 'floats' will generally be sewn in except where the 'jump' is small. I will usuually float up to 6 threads as the will normally hold tight enough not to sag. As a hand weaver I can weave in anything greater as I go rether than wait until the end.

As the shuttle is always introduced from the same side on a traditional loom there is always a good or clean selvedge and you should never see floats on a kilt made from single width cloth unless the maker has used the cloth upsidedown.

[The Wizard of BC]

I have been buying fabrics from many of the major mills for quite some time now. I purchase approx.30-40 yards per month from Lochcaron alone. This is on average 1/3 of my Tartan fabric purchases.

I have also visited many of the mills including Lochcarron and D.C. Dalgliesh (which BTW are about 100yards from each other in the same industrial park.).

I think it may give the wrong impression to put in a title that a mill is "losing their edge" and thereby imply that their quality has changed or decreased in some way.
Lochcarron has produced the same quality of fabric consistantly for as long as I've been in this business.

Is that fabric different from that of another mill? Yes it is. In slight but noticable ways. And many customers prefer that they have a choice. I know I do.

I buy from one mill to get a particular 'hand' to a fabric. From another to get a particular color. And from another to get a particular Tartan.

With Lochcarron I know exactly what I am getting. I have been able to trust them for a long time and will continue to do so. Their quality is the same it has been all along.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the one kilts' worth you purchased. It occasionally happens to all of us. We deal with it and drive on to please our customers.

As you say, this is the only experience you have had with Lochcarron. To imply that something is wrong at a mill or that their quaility has changed based on one length of fabric may be seen as a bit strong.

[xman]

I'd like to thank everyone for their input so far. It is illuminating. I guess the reason I felt a need to have this discussed was that I was presented with not one, but three issues I wasn't quite prepared for.

The first, the issue of feel and fold to the fabric I am beginning to see as simply a matter of preference and there are reasons to prefer it and reasons not to. I'm looking forward to the pressing to experience that difference. Steve, you bring up a very important point about some of the other reasons such as colour which I like very much in this cloth and I must also confess that I really do prefer their thread count in this sett to all the other mills. Although the fluffy or spongy texture isn't what I'm used to some 13 kilts in now I'll confess that I'm 2/3 through pleating and not having any problems. It's going well, better than I might have anticipated initially.

It was the coincidence of both the sett not matching edge to edge (thanks for the suggestion of steaming, Rocky. I'll keep it in mind should I face the challenge again) as well as the loose threads (yes 'losing their edge" was intended to be evocative. too dramatic perhaps) that made me bring it up for discussion. I was able to dodge the unmatched sett with the second kilt length and the loose threads are not too difficult a problem in the first place. Add it all together though and it did give me reason to pause. I guess my lesson here is to be prepared for the unforeseen and plan accordingly. I'm sure I'll prefer not having to jump through too many hoops at once though.

Thank-you all again.

[Slowburn]

Excellent thread, pardon the pun, coincides nicely with my post as a new strome kilt owner. Makes me wish I held out a bit longer to pull the trigger on that tank.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I once had a "fashion design" student come into the museum and run his hands along a length of House of Edgar's 13 oz cloth and a length of Lochcarron's 16 oz cloth, and declare to me that the House of Edgar sample was "far superior" to Lochcarron's.

Now, as a kiltmaker, I find the heavier weight cloth much easier to sew in general, and specifically I find the Lochcarron cloth MUCH easier to iron than House of Edgar's (even if we are comparing 13 oz to 13 oz). For those reasons, I would have considered the 16 oz Lochcarron sample as "superior cloth" to the House of Edgar 13 oz.

The design student and I obviously disagreed, but we were also approaching the matter with completely different criteria, which makes all the difference in the world.