use of the clan crest and tartan on on-line website

[gregor fulton mcgregor]

dear fellow kilt-wearers,
a fellow clansman thought some of you may have the answer i am having difficulty getting an answer to, even from my clan society website. i am in the process of setting up an on-line fly-fishing company - everything from tackle to travel - initially in asia but then further afield. i would like to use the clan tartan (red and green) and crest on the website. i understand that the chief, sir malcolm, is the ultimate arbiter on the matter but have had no response. the tartan is one of he four he recognised as 'official' in 2006. if anyone can offer advice on the matter i would be grateful.
aye yours,
gregor fulton mcgregor

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Unless your chief approves your use of the clan tartan and clan badge for a commercial enterprise you would best be advised to not do it.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Specifically regarding copyright law, the tartan design (in this case, as an older, traditional tartan) would be considered "public domain," and the crest, as well, so long as it was the "clansman" badge with the strap & buckle, as only the chief may display the crest along without the belt.

HOWEVER, specific renditions of the above can and likely ARE copyright protected designs. Unless you can find a drawing of the clan crest from a very old source that would be out of copyright, you'd best either draw your own (if you have that kind of talent) or hire an artist to draw a rendition for you. Because any specific rendition of the crest would be copyright whomever drew it or commissioned the drawing.

Same is true of the tartan. If I were to paint a picture of the tartan design, or even take a photograph of the tartan cloth, that picture would belong to me, even though the tartan design itself is public domain.

So, my advice would be to make sure you use your own images of whatever you decide to use on the site.

[Chas]

Hello Gregor,

Here is a copyright free rendition of the clan crest badge.



Here is the copyright statement:

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following license:

You are free:

• to share – to copy, distribute and transmit the work
• to remix – to adapt the work

Under the following conditions:

• attribution – You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).
• share alike – If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one.

Celtus @ english wikipedia

Regards

Chas

[Dale Seago]

Same is true of the tartan. If I were to paint a picture of the tartan design, or even take a photograph of the tartan cloth, that picture would belong to me, even though the tartan design itself is public domain.

That's how I did it. Don't use the clan crest, but I do use "my" clan tartan design as background on my website. It actually is a photograph I took of the plaid I'm wearing as a feileadh mor here.

[Tobus]

Keep in mind, also, that a clan tartan and clan crest are representative of a group of people, not just yourself. In using these identifiers for your own profit-making purposes as a company logo, you are sort of abusing the idea of what clan association means. Only the chief of a clan has license to do that. Without his permission, it's not a very nice thing to do.

Sorry if that is too blunt, but I figure it needed to be said.

What about making your own unique company logo (and tartan) that resembles a Scottish clan motif, but isn't hijacking actual clan symbols?

[Dale Seago]

What about making your own unique company logo (and tartan) that resembles a Scottish clan motif, but isn't hijacking actual clan symbols?

Great idea!

Though it's not a commercial enterprise, I did do that for a t-shirt I made available for students in my dojo. The logo consisted of a plain strap-&-buckle, surrounding the Japanese kanji characters for shinobu (which could also be read as nin) -- a tongue in cheek reference to us as a "ninja clan". Beneath the logo were the words "Bujinkan San Francisco Dojo", in a "Celtic" font.