How high is too high?

[Jay]

I've read many a discussion on length. Above, mid or below the knee. I think we all know where that discussion currently rests.


My question is height above the waist or navel. Some disagree with kilts sitting too low, like jeans, but we seldom talk about how far above the navel.


Your thoughts?

[Bugbear]

My thoughts are that the narrowest point around the kilt, usually the stabilizer and straps, will sit at the natural waist. If the kilt has a rise above that of two or ten inches that will be how it will end up on the wearer's body. I had to fix my wool kilt to sit properly and it made a huge difference in comfort.

I'm not a kiltmaker etc.

[mookien]

I have one kilt with a 4" rise, ie I wear it 4" above my navel, while the bottom of the front apron falls just below the top of my knee. It's an 8-yard, wool heavyweight (a tank), so it helps keep me warm in our snowy winters. Each of my other kilts has a 2" rise.

Armpit high is probably too high, but I suspect there is somebody, somewhere donning such a kilt as we write.

[The Wizard of BC]

One thing that I try to stress with my customers is not to use their naval as a guage for the height of their kilts.
Depending on your body shape the level of your navel may be different than someone with a different body shape.

Kilts that are made in the traditional manner, the Fell or sewn down and tapered area in the back, is not a straight line. It tapers smaller till it gets to the level of the top straps, It them flares back out above the straps. This means that the smallest part of the kilt is at the top strap.



This style of kilt is worn at the natural waist. To find your natural waist turn your hand so your spread fingers point towards your back. Place your hand with your fingers on your spine and your thumb at your side just under your ribs.
Then bend sideways towards your thumb. You will feel your thumb go into a depression or hollow just under your ribs. That is your natural waist. It is the smallest part of your body and where you cinch the straps.

If your kilt does not have this two way taper then you must adjust it till the smallest part of the kilt is worn at the smallest part of the body.


Now, if you do not have a Traditional style kilt, if you wish to wear your kilt at other than full rise, then the best thing to do is find where the waistband of your kilt would fit best given your body shape.

This is most easily done with a strap or belt. Put the strap around your self where it feels comfortable to you. Snug it up a bit but not tight enough that it cannot move. Then slide it side to side. Allow the strap to move till it is laying where it naturally wants to fit on your body. If you then put your kilt on at this level it will stay in place quite naturally.

Again, do not use your navel as a referance. I tell my customers to pay attention to their back, near the spine. There are three places on the body that are sort of natural for a waistband to lay. One is up at the natural waist (or if you will up at kidney level.)

The next place is into the small or nape of the back. To find this place back up to a wall, reach behind yourself and find where your spine if furthest away from the wall.

This is what I call 'mid-rise'. At mid-rise the waistband will usually sit just on top of your hip bones. A kilt worn at mid-rise can fit quite loosly as it is supported by the hip bones.

Low rise I define as 'Jeans waist'. The waistband of the kilt will sit on the flare of the butt in the rear and at the sides be below or over the hip bones.

Notice that the three levels are not referanced to the navel. They are found where a belt would fit naturally on your body. Where ever that is.

[Big Mikey]

My casual (UK) type kilts I wear at navel or jeans level. My dress kilts I wear at midrise or traditional highrise, at the bottom of the ribs. The variable is who the kilt was made by, Stillwaters at mid, made to measure at high. I like the casuals at low because I find it easier bending to do stuff. As a GoS, the high rise I find sits better and is more comfortable and also looks better.

Low Rise



Mid Rise



High Rise

[mookien]

Steve: Thank you for your interesting and thoughtful analysis. It brings new meaning (to me, anyway) to the term "rise".

I make reference to my navel, because it is so much easier to find. I just look down and say, "Oh!, there it is."

Now, you've made my life more complicated.

[Paul Henry]

I've read many a discussion on length. Above, mid or below the knee. I think we all know where that discussion currently rests.


My question is height above the waist or navel. Some disagree with kilts sitting too low, like jeans, but we seldom talk about how far above the navel.


Your thoughts?

Generally it's important to concentrate on where the kilt falls on/or above the knee, wherever the top of the kilt stops really isn't so very important, as every kiltmaker has slightly different ways of making, and will also probably have different measurements of rise.

Steve's point's are well taken but they may not be universal, for his kilts perhaps and his chosen method of measuring, but it might not neccessarily hold good for all kilt makers.

[Pleater]

Proportion has got a lot to do with how well a kilt will look when worn high mid way or low on the body.

Trousers look alright when worn low because there is still a lot of them - though there can be a distinct ice cream cone effect when worn low and tight.

I think a kilt can look very wrong when it appears to be wider than it is long - what I think of as the pelmet effect. (A pelmet is a gathered strip of fabric which is hung at the top of a window to hide the curtain rail.)

A few inches of rise alters how the body shape is perceived.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[seanachie]

Generally it's important to concentrate on where the kilt falls on/or above the knee, wherever the top of the kilt stops really isn't so very important, as every kiltmaker has slightly different ways of making, and will also probably have different measurements of rise.

Steve's point's are well taken but they may not be universal, for his kilts perhaps and his chosen method of measuring, but it might not neccessarily hold good for all kilt makers.

I think there is a lot to what Paul says. I have a few Kilts from Keltoi (John Hart) and his instructions are as follows: "Length of the kilt. Measure from your natural waist to the top of your knee-cap. Keep your back straight and don't look down. Add 5 cm (2") to this result." The natural waist he defines as: "For most people, this is the indent at your side just above the navel. This measurement should be fairly snug." Now these instructions work very well for his kilts and I am well pleased. But taking another kilt I own, following these instructions I am sure things might well have gone wrong. However I followed the kilt makers instructions and it turned out sized correctly.

[The Wizard of BC]

The definition I used above for the natural waist is paraphrased from "Gray's Anatomy" the difinitave source for medical doctors.

It is applicable to any measuring system as it is the place on a human body that is where you bend.

It does not matter what kiltmaker's measuring system you use. It's just human anatomy.

The point I was trying to make is that the location of the navel may change depending on the body shape. For Gentlemen of Substance the location of the navel is lower than on skinny guys. Bones on the other hand don't cange. The natural waist is always the natural waist.

Your kilt may not fit at your natural waist or you may not like it there. That is the wearers choice. But we should use the same definitions and terms.

For example, my Tewksbury kilt fits at my natural waist. It is the only kilt I own that is designed and made to fit there. When I strap it on it stays perfectly. It never moves or is uncomfortable. The top of the waistband is almost four inches above my navel. It covers my short ribs.

Most of my own design kilts I make to fit at mid-rise. The waistband sits on top of my hip bones and is almost exactly at my navel in the front. But that is just coincidance due to my body shape. I have made kilts for a wide range of body shapes and everytime I use the three places on the spine to measure the customer the kilt fits the way they want it too. I can't remember ever using the navel as a referance point. I just find it too arbitrary for a good fit.

I was just trying to pass on a little tip I have found over the years to better describe where a waistband could fit.

Take it or leave it. Your choice.