Difference Between US Marine Corps Tartan & Leatherneck Tartan

**Dixiedog** · 11th January 12, 03:34 PM

Hey All... Just when it was getting confusing enough... It just got more confusing !!! This is another Manufacturers Head Slapper for Barb T. to unravel for us, like she brought to our attention about her Daughters USAFRPB Kilt Tartan back in December 2011 (Surprise with the US Air Force Reserve Pipe Band Tartan). This time it's with the US Marine Corps Tartan.

It appears that there are indeed TWO Different Tartans that were designed to Honor the US Marine Corps (The US Marine Corps Tartan ~ STA #975 & The Leatherneck Tartan ~ STA #3612). According to the STA, The two Tartans were designed by the same designers, both are produced by the same mills and both have exactly the same Thread Counts. In reality though, The Base Difference between the two Tartans is in the Color Brilliance of the Tartans.

The US Marine Corps (USMC) Tartan ~ STA 975 is much Brighter in Threat Color that the Leatherneck STA #3612. The USMC Tartan (STA #975) Thread Count is as follows... 6 Red - 8 Yellow - 64 Blue - 24 Green - 6 Red - 8 Green - 6 Red - 80 Green. The Leatherneck Tartan (STA #3612) uses Darker Shades of the Same Base Color Thread as follows... 6 Dark Red - 8 Mustard Yellow - 64 Royal Blue - 24 Green - 6 Dark Red - 8 Green - 6 Dark Red - 80 Green.

The Darker Thread Color Shades diffently Change the Overall Appearance of the Tartan. Even though the Pattern is the same, the Color Intensity is Dramatically Different. But according to the STA, even though the Tartan Names and the Thread Colors are Different, the STA says that they are the same Tartans. See the STA Links Below...

(http://www.tartansauthority.com/tart...orps-militaryo)

(http://www.tartansauthority.com/tart...rneck-military)

Who do you Trust? I guess it's all in Customer Preference... If You want a Brighter Color Tartan, you have to be Very Specific and request "The US Marine Corps Tartan (STA #975)." If you want a more Subdued Color Tartan, you again have to be Very Specific and request "The Leatherneck Tartan (STA #3612)."

Good Luck in the Crazyness of it all...

**The Wizard of BC** · 11th January 12, 06:39 PM

Here are the two tartans side by side.

One is from Strathmore and one from Lochcarron.

Eventhough both Tartans in the STA have the exact thread counts, which would or should make them identical, note that the reds in the top example are narrower between the gold and wider elsewhere. The bottom example has the red widths reversed. This would make both of these incorrect.

All the red lines should be 6 yarns wide. All the yellow or gold lines should be 8 yarns wide.

This is not the case of a Modern version vs an ancient or weathered version as here showing the three versions of the Scott Green Tartan.

This seems to be a case of the weavers taking quite a bit of liberty with the listed thread counts.

**Dixiedog** · 11th January 12, 10:45 PM

WOW Steve... Talk about Pictures Being Worth a Thousand Words !!! I can hardly wait for Barb T. to see all of this and hear her reply!!! After reading her Initial Posting from December 2011 about the difference she found in the US Air Force Tartans that she made up for her Daughter (Man... She sounded like she was Really Getting Fired-Up about that problem in all her subsequent postings.) And that got me thinking about checking into the Marine Tartans to see if there was a similar problem between the US Marine Corps Tartan (STA #975) and the Leatherneck Tartan (STA #3612). And sure enough... There it was !!! The Exact Same Problem that Barb ran into with her Daughters Tartans !!! Too Bad that I didn't find out about the difference between the two Marine Tartans before I ordered my New Leatherneck Tartan. I really would have preferred the Brighter Colored US Marine Corps Tartan (STA #975) over the more Subdued Color of the Leatherneck Tartan (STA #3612). Oh Well... Live & Learn !!! I just hope that my choice of having the Leatherneck Pleated to the Double Gold Stripe will kind of Brighten the Tartan Colors up a bit.

You know what we at XMS should do ??? We should all get together and sign some sort of Petition to the Mills, stating our Greivances about the Lack of Professionalism that they are displaying in the production of their Finished Products. We are Paying WAY TOO MUCH for their Actistic Liberties.

I think I'd better get down off of my Soap Box now before somebody writes my name in the box at the bottom of the Ballot for President of The United States of America !!! What a Nightmare that would be (For ME... not the Country) !!!

Thanks Again Steve...

**Steve Ashton** · 11th January 12, 11:22 PM

Do you still want to see photos of the more subdued Tartan pleated to the gold stripe?

I have about 5 pleats sewn in mine. Haven't had time to do much sewing on my own kilt lately but could take a pic for you.

**Dixiedog** · 11th January 12, 11:57 PM

Steve... Yes Please, if you have the time !!!

Thank you very much...

Originally Posted by Steve Ashton

Do you still want to see photos of the more subdued Tartan pleated to the gold stripe?

I have about 5 pleats sewn in mine. Haven't had time to do much sewing on my own kilt lately but could take a pic for you.

**piperdbh** · 12th January 12, 10:53 AM

Pardon me if I'm looking crooked, but I don't see that there's a big problem. It looks to me like we have two examples of the same tartan which happen to have been woven using slightly different shades of certain colors. My understaning is that this is perfectly acceptable in the tartan industry, unless the customer specifies that a certain color must perfectly match a color sample or Pantone number. The slight variation in the number of red or yellow threads might be a result of the weaver not paying close attention to his work, or someone's sloppy handwriting on an order ticket, or any of several factors.
Am I way off base?

**Sir William** · 12th January 12, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

Here are the two tartans side by side.

One is from Strathmore and one from Lochcarron.

Eventhough both Tartans in the STA have the exact thread counts, which would or should make them identical, note that the reds in the top example are narrower between the gold and wider elsewhere. The bottom example has the red widths reversed. This would make both of these incorrect.

This seems to be a case of the weavers taking quite a bit of liberty with the listed thread counts.

After reading this I went and looked at my box-pleated kilt made by Matt Newsome. Unfortunately, I don't know who wove the cloth but the colors appear closer to the Lochcarron.

I was relieved to see that the red stripes are all equal width (and of the wider width as seen in the examples above).

**creagdhubh** · 12th January 12, 01:29 PM

Lochcarron's weave looks much smarter in my opinion! I've always preferred the colours of Lochcarron and D.C. Dalgliesh versus any other mill.

Slainte,

**Dixiedog** · 12th January 12, 02:37 PM

WOW Folks... This is Great !!! I really opened up a Real Can of Worms with this Thread. You Folks are Fantastic !!! It's Great to see this much input on this topic as it shows that the XMS Members, both Kilt Wearers & Kilt Makers, know more about the Rules & Regs of Tartan Designs than the Mills that manufacture the Tartans in the First Place, do !!! Keep It Up Y'all !!!

**thescot** · 12th January 12, 02:46 PM

The Leatherneck tartan was designed by Robert Hall, an acquaintance of mine and a Viet Nam Marine. He lives in Minn. or Wisconsin or one of those strange-shaped states up north.

I think the difference should only be in the color actually used by the different mills. I'm not sure where mine was woven, but it's the brighter color. I didn't even know there was a "USMC" tartan as Bob calls it the Leatherneck. I'm wondering if someone hasn't taken liberties with the records. I'll point Bob to this thread and see what he has to say.