first kilt / Flemish tartan

[docBol]

Hello Xmarkers,

Recently I got interested in trying on a kilt, mostly because it looks comfortable for hiking, festivals, .... Except for a few hours in a "stage kilt" (I guess a real kilt is not as flimsy as the thing they had me wearing then) I've got absolutely no experience kilt wise. And because I don't know if i'll like it I'm reluctant to shell out over 100€ just for a try.

Hence are there any kilt brands that can be advised for getting acquainted with kilt wearing at a budget? And are there any kilt-like garments which have pockets?

Secondly A tartan question (the reason for posting in this section):

As I got interested in Kilts / Tartan I started reading up on the history and clan relations with the fabric (that is how I found this forum). Now, I would find it somewhat strange to wear something linked to a specific clan, especially if I don't have any link wit that clan. However I found a rather nice tartan that was created to commemorate Scottish-Flemish relations (I'm of Flemish descent, so that'd be ideal). It's registered as number 2531 under the name Fleming / Frisken / Flanders tartan.

Is there anyone making kilts or other objects (ties, scarfs, ...) in this tartan?
I guess no budget kilt will be available in this tartan (seems to be rare)?

Thank
doc

[Paul Henry]

As someone who is very fond of Belgium, and regards the city of Gent as almost a second home, I can understand why you might want to wear something connected to your history as well. Getting hold of the Flanders tartan won't be difficult but it's likely to be a special weave so consequently expensive as well, but it is something I've been thinking of for a while myself, so who knows perhaps we can join forces!
There are a number of budget kilts available, but as you have found out , they won't be the same a proper full kilt, but they would at least give you a feel , they are generally available in a limited range of open or unrestricted tartans, but it's a start. You haven't said where you are so it's not so easy to give advice on where to get one, but you might end up working online.
And welcome to the forum!

[docBol]

Just an extra bit of information, I'm located in Flanders, so euro-based shops are preferred. In my search I ended up in quite a lot of us based shops, of which one sport a logo quite similar to the Flemish lion (sportkilt). They say their logo was inspired by the Scottish lion flag

[Paul Henry]

The only shop in Belgium that I know is Great Scotland do you know it?

[Grizzly]

eBay will sort you out a budget kilt for less than £50 (gbp) lots of generic / district tartans to choose from.

However if you want to eventually have that truly heirloom quality kilt then you have to look no further than Paul Henry (posted above) a superb kiltmaker who will be making one for me in the near future.

[docBol]

Thanks for the tips, but for now, I'm just looking into getting acquainted with the garment.

I'm really surprised that none of the shops found online offers a selection of kilts in "national" tartans, either is a real kilt quality or budget-line. I'd guess that other people like me just looking into trying one would realy like that, especially if they don't really know which fabric to chose.

[docBol]

The only shop in Belgium that I know is Great Scotland do you know it?

Yes, that is one of the first online stores I found, next to Large.nl (which sells 3 kilts, but they look like party-favours).

Great Scotland is a respectable drive away (1.5h, located just on the dutch border) but a definite option.

I'm considering just buying online unless I'd find a shop somewhat closer to either Leuven or Bruges

[xdepuydt]

Just an extra bit of information, I'm located in Flanders, so euro-based shops are preferred. In my search I ended up in quite a lot of us based shops, of which one sport a logo quite similar to the Flemish lion (sportkilt). They say their logo was inspired by the Scottish lion flag

Hello,


I am from Flanders too (near Gent). I speak Dutch, but as everyone on this site communicates in English, I send you my greetings in Shakespeare’s language

[docBol]

Maybe an additional question for the Tartan specialists,

I've found it mentioned that the Flemish 2531 Tartan is based on the Murray of Atholl tartan because Flemings were allowed to wear this for reasons of "friendship". What does this actually mean? Are all Flemings (as in Flemish people) allowed to wear this out of love for Scottish culture. Or Do you have to be a frien of the clan? Or does this relate to the Fleming familyname?

Perhaps this tartan is more common than the 2531

[Mike_Oettle]

In answer to the questions about the links between the Flemish tartan and Murray of Atholl, here is a quote from Wikipedia (yes, the dreaded Wiki!) on the subject. It appears to be fairly accurate:

The Murrays (Moireach in Scottish Gaelic) are descended from the Flemish nobleman Freskin de Moravia (also progenitor of Clan Sutherland and possibly Clan Douglas). Flemish and Norman lords crossed the North Sea and established themselves in the Scottish realm at the invitation of the Kings of Scots from the early 12th century. Freskin and his son were granted extensive lands in Moray and intermarried with the old line of Celtic Mormaers from Moray. They took the name ‘de Moravia’, i.e. ‘of Moray’ in Latin. The descendants of Freskin’s grandson William de Moravia became Lords of Bothwell. The name became more generally written simply as ‘Moray’ or variants, deriving from the great province of Moray, once a local kingdom, by the end of the 13th century. From him descend the principal houses of Murray: Tullibardine, Atholl, Abercairney and Polmaise. The name Murray is believed to derive from Pictish *Moritreb, meaning ‘seaward settlement’, referring to the ancient province, the Mormaerdom of Moray. Much larger than the present county of Moray, it ran along the coast of the Moray Firth, north of the Grampians. MacMurray, Moray, Murry, Morrow, and Morogh are all variants of the family name.

There are several other Scottish families with connections to Flanders, including the Bowes-Lyons from whom the Queen is descended (the blue lion rampant of Lyon is taken directly from the arms of the graven van Leuven – in English, the counts of Louvain), and quite likely even King William the Lion, the first Scottish sovereign known to have borne the lion in his coat of arms.
He added a tressure flory-counterflory to distinguish his arms from those of his cousin, the Earl of Fife. Both the tressure [now known generally as a royal tressure and an integral part of many Scottish personal and corporate arms] and the lion were to be found in the arms of Flemings as borne for centuries before the so-called Norman Conquest of England in 1066.
Regards,
Mike