distinction between dress plaid and hunting plaid

[Arrowyn]

At what point in history was there made a distinction between the dress tartan and a hunting tartan I have a second question. If a Highlander (nobleman, but not wealthy) in the 1600's needed to 'dress up' for an occasion what would be his most likely choice?

THANK YOU!

[EagleJCS]

The historians among us could probably put a date (or at least a more definitive time period) to the distinction between 'dress' tartan and 'hunting' tartan. My guess, based on what I've read here and elsewhere, is that the distinction wasn't made until the mid-to-late 1800's, when the Victorian society started making all sorts of 'rules' about what should and shouldn't be worn, when and where they should/shouldn't be worn, etc. That was also partly based on the influences of the wool mills on the tartan cloth industry.

Prior to that era (and prior to the 1747 Act of Proscription which banned the wear of tartan), folk wore whatever was available.

As far as what a Highland noble would have worn - in any era - I haven't a clue. My best guess would include a linen shirt (as opposed to wool). I found this link, which may help.

[Arrowyn]

Thanks. There is some good stuff on that link!

[figheadair]

John is correct about the mid-late Victorian origin for the differentiation and the reasons why.

A description of nobleman's dress in the 1600s would depend on a number of things not least which end of the century you are talking about. At the beginning it would have been more mediaeval but by the late C17th you'd have found something more like the dress that we associate with Culloden era Highlanders. Look at the first and last posts here for an example of a Highland chief's clothing.

Prior to that era (and prior to the 1747 Act of Proscription which banned the wear of tartan), folk wore whatever was available.

John, that's not quite correct. It's an interesting distinction and an assumption often made but the Act banned the kilt, plaid, and Highland clothes but not actually tartan.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

You might find this articles of mine about tartan terminology helpful in answering your questions about "dress" and "hunting" etc.

http://scottishtartans.org/downloads...eet_colors.pdf

http://www.albanach.org/terminology.html

[Arrowyn]

Thanks!

[OC Richard]

Nice articles there Matt.

It gets confusing because, as I understand it, originally "dress" tartans were tartans with large white areas intended strictly for female wear.

But for some reason in the Victorian period people started thinking of tartans as being more suited to one male pursuit or another, "hunting" for outdoor wear and "dress" for evening wear.

If they had chosen the term "evening tartan" rather than "dress tartan" things wouldn't have got all mixed up, but sadly they did not, and nowadays many men think that the "dress tartans" with large white areas are for male Evening Dress. (I cringe every time I see a man wearing one of these.)

Remember that prior to the 19th century tartans were not systematised in any way, except in the kilted regiments of the British army. To get a sense of 18th century dress the best thing to do is to look at all the surviving portaits and read all the surviving mentions of dress which crop up in various writings. There's not very much material, it makes for a fairly quick read. The only mentioning of distinctions in tartan design, as I recall, are the references to the female arisaid tartans with the white stripes, and a single passage saying that you could guess the place of a man's residence by the design of his tartan.

As to what a nobleman might wear in the 17th century we have only this one portrait, from 1660



and the next-oldest is from 1700

[EagleJCS]

John, that's not quite correct. It's an interesting distinction and an assumption often made but the Act banned the kilt, plaid, and Highland clothes but not actually tartan.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Chas]

At what point in history was there made a distinction between the dress tartan and a hunting tartan I have a second question. If a Highlander (nobleman, but not wealthy) in the 1600's needed to 'dress up' for an occasion what would be his most likely choice?

THANK YOU!

I think a bit of historical context is needed.

At the time you are talking about - people stank. They did not wash - neither their bodies, nor their clothes. Queen Elizabeth I (1558 – 1603) is quoted as saying "I take a bath, every year, whether I need it or not". People who lived in larger buildings, kept any clothes that they were not wearing in a 'garderobe', which was also their toilet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garderobe So they wore clothes smelling of farts.

The vast majority of people in the British Isles could not swim - not even sailors nor fishermen. There was certainly no swimming for recreational purposes, which might have kept the dirt at bay.

It was not until the Victorian era (1837 – 1901), that the idea of "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" was introduced and found favour.

In the 1600s the concept of leisure time did not really exist, unless one was rich enough to afford servants to do the work that a person should be doing themselves. So I am trying to think what this occasion could be that this nobleman needed to dress up for.

In the final analysis, I think that if a man wanted to impress, he would have worn his newest clothing.

Regards

Chas

[Arrowyn]

LOL. Understood. Unfortunately, I do write romance and the modern woman would be greatly turned off, so I have to fudge just a bit for marketing's sake....