" 'Amazingly rare' letter written by Robert the Bruce to Edward II found"

[Elizabeth]

Very interesting!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...d-8640252.html

[Father Bill]

Neat! I like "finds" like that.

[Phil]

Didn't manage to put off the battle of Bannockburn though. And who won that?

[Dale Seago]

Didn't manage to put off the battle of Bannockburn though. And who won that?

If you're talking about the battle, purely as a single engagement, it seems pretty clear:

Edward fled with his personal bodyguard, ending the remaining order in the army; panic spread and defeat turned into a rout. He arrived eventually at Dunbar Castle, from here he took ship to England. From the carnage of Bannockburn, the rest of the army tried to escape to the safety of the English border, ninety miles to the south. Many were killed by the pursuing Scottish army or by the inhabitants of the countryside that they passed through. Historian Peter Reese says that, "only one sizeable group of men—all footsoldiers—made good their escape to England."[9] These were a force of Welsh spearmen who were kept together by their commander, Sir Maurice de Berkeley, and the majority of them reached Carlisle.[9] Weighing up the available evidence, Reese concludes that "it seems doubtful if even a third of the footsoldiers returned to England."[9] Out of 16,000 infantrymen, this would give a total of about 11,000 killed. The English chronicler Thomas Walsingham gave the number of English men-at-arms who were killed as 700,[7] while 500 more men-at-arms were spared for ransom.[27] The Scottish losses appear to have been comparatively light, with only two knights among those killed.[28]
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...ckburn#Retreat)

If you are thinking in terms of a "larger" historic sense, I think your query would be better applied to Culloden -- I believe things would have gone very badly for Scotland afterward regardless of which side won the battle, and for that matter the war.

[Carlo]

Imagine how rare a find like this will be in 800 years. Don't think my memory-sticks will survive that long .

If we think in terms of a larger historic sense, I'm not sure about who won at Culloden. Scotland got an identity out of it, kilts and tartan, bagpipes, the Tattoo and those beautiful songs about the rebellion.

But in the short term any battle and war has a small number of winners and a huge number of people who lost.

[Roderick Powell]

As far as I can remember the Jacobites were routed with grape shot and that was the end of the ould ways forever. Butcher Cumberland. General Wade opening up the Highlands for british control. Croft burning clearances,Abolition of the Kilt. The great sheep farms. Migration, founding of the black Watch. A new way of life.
The thought is there, The time scale may be inaccurate.Mine is schoolboy history and not terribly accurate. Roddy

[grizzbass]

for a moment I thought this might be a post complaining about how slow the mail can be.

[TheOfficialBren]

Hahahahaha!

Hilarious, Grizzbass!!

[guardsman]

The original agreement was for the black watch only to serve in Scotland , a lot of soldiers were betrayed and shot for refusing to serve overseas . How unusual !