Even in the Hebrides

[Nathan]

Here are a couple of photos from a Facebook friend of mine from Uist. These photos are from 28 years ago and were taken in the Highlands. I assume it was a wedding, but I don't know for sure as his facebook comments didn't say.

As you can see, even in the home of the kilt, there are those who wear ecru hose, ghillie brogues and waitbelts and waistcoats at the same time. Whether you appreciate the aesthetic or not, I think this is good evidence that such fashion choices are not the exclusive domain of those "outwith the Scottish Highlands".

[creagdhubh]

As you can see, even in the home of the kilt, there are those who wear ecru hose, ghillie brogues and waitbelts and waistcoats at the same time. Whether you appreciate the aesthetic or not, I think this is good evidence that such fashion choices are not the exclusive domain of those "outwith the Scottish Highlands".

Quite right and I couldn't agree more. Thanks for sharing the photos - I'm only 3 years older than them!

Cheers,

[Jock Scot]

Yes it was about that time when the kilt began to be worn more generally for weddings in Scotland and I suppose in consequence, new thinking on what might be worn on the "big day" arrived. I cannot say that the thinking in general was based on fact and was led more by what the hire companies dictated than anything else and with little regard of the traditional. Still there we go.

[creagdhubh]

Yes it was about that time when the kilt began to be worn more generally for weddings in Scotland and I suppose in consequence, new thinking on what might be worn on the "big day" arrived. I cannot say that the thinking in general was based on fact and was led more by what the hire companies dictated than anything else and with little regard of the traditional. Still there we go.

Good point there, Jock.

[Nathan]

Yes it was about that time when the kilt began to be worn more generally for weddings in Scotland and I suppose in consequence, new thinking on what might be worn on the "big day" arrived. I cannot say that the thinking in general was based on fact and was led more by what the hire companies dictated than anything else and with little regard of the traditional. Still there we go.

That had crossed my mind, but I did note that not all the tuxedo shirts matched and that they weren't all wearing the same kilt, two tell-tale signs of rental rigs. There is also a fair diversity among the sporrans. Maybe I'll send him a note on fb and ask if they hired their kit or owned it.

Either way, this is a family of Gaelic speakers who are from the Highlands and Islands and who are connected to the traditional music scene. I think it would be safe to say that they had exposure to how the kilt is worn is Scotland.

Unless there's a particular kilting aesthetic that is peculiar to a certain class or demographic of landed gentry and estate owners that the common rabble just doesn't understand...

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I wonder what the point is you are trying to prove? I'm not meaning to say as an accusation. Just an observation. If all you want to do is to demonstrate that native Scots who wear the kilt in Scotland sometimes wear white and/or ecru hose and make fashion faux pas such as wearing a waist belt and a waistcoat at the same time, I don't think that point was in question. One can find plenty of evidence of this simply by doing a Google search, browsing the web pages of Highland dress suppliers, or walking down the streets of Edinburgh.

I don't think I have ever heard it said that wearing ecru hose is "something Americans do" that "is never done in Scotland." People who don't like ecru hose generally hold that opinion for aesthetic reasons. They just don't like the way they look as much as other colors. And I know plenty of people with that opinion within and without Scotland.

Wearing a waist belt (or dirk belt) with a waistcoat is something that has become more and more common over time, and I chalk it up to the decline in knowledge of formal dress in general among most people. But if you go back and look at older examples I doubt you will find this done very often, if at all. I don't think being in Scotland or Canada, or Boston, or Australia would have anything to do with it.

Scotland is the home of Highland Dress, yes. And those of us outside of Scotland look to her still to inform us as to the genuine traditions of kilt wearing. But there is still a lot of room for personal tastes and preferences, and we have to realize that just because one person -- or a lot of people -- in Scotland wear their kilt a certain way that does not necessarily mean that we will want to do the same.

No doubt there are plenty of people in Scotland who wear ecru hose and waist belts with their waistcoats. And I don't doubt there are plenty of people in Scotland who would never do either of those things. And there are plenty of people in North America who hold both of those opinions, as well. After all, we get the same Highland Dress catalogs, we look at the same web sites, etc. This is one case where I just don't think geography has much to do with it.

[Grizzled Ian]

Scotland is the home of Highland Dress, yes. And those of us outside of Scotland look to her still to inform us as to the genuine traditions of kilt wearing. But there is still a lot of room for personal tastes and preferences, and we have to realize that just because one person -- or a lot of people -- in Scotland wear their kilt a certain way that does not necessarily mean that we will want to do the same.

A majority of readers of this thread (and of others like it) are aware, I am sure, that there is a distinction between the genuine traditions that Matt refers to, and more adventurous/casual/modern approaches to kilt wearing. Some contributors to this thread make it clear that it is a pretty fine line that separates their approach from any other, but I suspect that an appreciable number of readers take a much broader approach, and embrace as acceptable alternates those styles of dress that some regard as gross violations of what they regard as the orthodox.

But I am glad that Matt refers to traditions (plural). This reminds us to accept a number of different styles as traditions, from the different eras of Scottish history, plus the 'tradition' best described as 'what was done when I was a boy', plus the tradition(s) being laid down now as people go about their kilt wearing with flair, innovation and taste. We may not like all such styles, but - there it is.

I regard as lamentable the passing of the tradition of all undergraduates learning Latin. Knowledge of Latin (or, I admit, of any other language) gives a much greater appreciation of English grammar and syntax, and improves the capacity to mount an argument, along with myriad other benefits. But I know that won't return, so I try to make the world a better place in ways other than campaigning for a reintroduction.

[Jock Scot]

That had crossed my mind, but I did note that not all the tuxedo shirts matched and that they weren't all wearing the same kilt, two tell-tale signs of rental rigs. There is also a fair diversity among the sporrans. Maybe I'll send him a not on fb and ask if they hired their kit or owned it.

Either way, this is a family of Gaelic speakers who are from the Highlands and Islands and who are connected to the traditional music scene. I think it would be safe to say that they had exposure to how the kilt is worn is Scotland.

Unless there's a particular kilting aesthetic that is peculiar to a certain class or demographic of landed gentry and estate owners that the common rabble just doesn't understand...

Looking at your last paragraph, I think that there is something very pertinant contained within. I am struggling with my words here as I do not want to give the wrong impression, I am also trying to minimise the "class aspect" although it is true that it did exist, it is more the "experianced in kilt wearing" as opposed to the "new entrant kilt-wearer". Which generally meant an availability of surplus income for those that owned kilt attire and for those who hired kilt attire for the weekend, because------. Well, it was still a lot less expensive than buying a suit and more fun!

From my recollection, which I touched on in my earlier post here, the hiring of kilt attire began to arrive in the late 1960's, early 1970's. Those that already had kilts were well versed in kilt attire traditions and those that decided to venture into kilt attire probably started with kilt hire with little or no kilt attire know how. We do also need to remember that there were no cheap kilts available in those days, military kilts were worn by serving and retired military men and besides there was(still is) the thought that only "their" Clan tartan would do. Presumably those not wearing "their" clan tartan were/ are happy to do so?

So an ideal climate for the hire firms to thrive with this new enthusiasm for kilts and of course those new to kilt wearing were advised by the hire companies and others that frankly knew no better. To those that knew the form, a black tie and a PC worn to a wedding(daytime in the UK) was a major break with tradition. To those who had no tradition in kilt wearing went along with the advice being given by the hire companies. And the hire companies laughed all the way to the bank with selling/hiring the same black tie, PC,kilt, hose, for both day events(weddings) and formal evening wear. As Phil has so ably pointed out in his post most Scots are not really bothered with the details and frankly why should they? They are presumably happy with what they do and those that are aware of the more traditional way of dressing in the kilt are an ever shrinking minority.

[creagdhubh]

Looking at your last paragraph, I think that there is something very pertinant contained within. I am struggling with my words here as I do not want to give the wrong impression, I am also trying to minimise the "class aspect" although it is true that it did exist, it is more the "experianced in kilt wearing" as opposed to the "new entrant kilt-wearer". Which generally meant an availability of surplus income for those that owned kilt attire and for those who hired kilt attire for the weekend. Well, it was still a lot less expensive than buying a suit and more fun!

From my recollection, which I touched on in my earlier post here, the hiring of kilt attire began to arrive in the late 1960's, early 1970's. Those that already had kilts were well versed in kilt attire traditions and those that decided to venture into kilt attire probably started with kilt hire with little or no kilt attire know how. We do also need to remember that there were no cheap kilts available in those days, military kilts were worn by serving and retired military men and besides there was(still is) the thought that only "their" Clan tartan would do. Presumably those not wearing "their" clan tartan were/ are happy to do so?

So an ideal climate for the hire firms to thrive with this new enthusiasm for kilts and of course those new to kilt wearing were advised by the hire companies and others that frankly knew no better. To those that knew the form, a black tie and a PC worn to a wedding(daytime in the UK) was a major break with tradition. To those who had no tradition in kilt wearing went along with the advice being given by the hire companies. And the hire companies laughed all the way to the bank with selling/hiring the same black tie, PC,kilt, hose, for both day events(weddings) and formal evening wear. As Phil has so ably pointed out in his post most Scots are not really bothered with the details and frankly why should they? They are presumably happy with what they do and those that are aware of the more traditional way of dressing in the kilt are an ever shrinking minority.

Your choice of words is spot on, Jock. Very eloquently said and it makes a lot of sense.

Cheers,

[Phil]

As you can see, even in the home of the kilt, there are those who wear ecru hose, ghillie brogues and waitbelts and waistcoats at the same time. Whether you appreciate the aesthetic or not, I think this is good evidence that such fashion choices are not the exclusive domain of those "outwith the Scottish Highlands".

You don't need to go back 28 years to experience this style of dress at a Scottish wedding. Any wedding in any Scottish town nowadays will see the majority of kilted guests dressed in exactly this way. I don't really think that the majority of Scots give a moments thought to the niceties of Highland dress in the way that it is examined, criticised and pontificated about in a Forum such as this.