Waistcoat or Vest?

[OC Richard]

There was some thread here somewhere (can't find it just now) in which our British friends corrected the American usage of 'vest' as opposed to 'waistcoat'.

What struck me, in looking through my small collection of vintage Highland Dress catalogues, is that in the older catalogues the word 'vest' is used exclusively in some catalogues, 'waistcoat' in others, and the two words used interchangeably in others.

For example what is perhaps my earliest catalogue, RG Lawrie, undated but one of the illustrations is signed and dated by the artist T Grainger Jeffrey '26, has:

Doublet or Coatee and Vest, Silk Lapels

Jacket and Vest, Scotch Homespun or Harris Tweed

No 'waistcoat' anywhere I can find.

However the Anderson 1936 catalogue uses 'waistcoat' and 'vest' interchangeably

This illustration shows the Coatee. This Coat- specially suitable for the younger man- may also be made with silk facings as illustrated, or in black cloth or velvet. This illustration also serves to show the cross-cut tartan waistcoat, lace jabot, castellated top stockings, and the two styles of evening brogues.

Specimen of kilt outfit for Evening Wear
Coatee- Black Coating with Silk facings and with plated buttons.
Vest- Black Coating.

One of my Paisley catalogues, undated but c1930 from the style of illustrations, uses 'vest'

This is the Prince Charlie Coatee, front view, showing the double breasted coatee with silver plated buttons and seal sporran. The vest may be black or red.

This is the Tweed Argyll for men, designed for everyday wear. It comprises tweed jacket and vest with stockings to match, clan tartan kilt, and sporran which may be an animal head or leather as illustrated.

(NB the stockings do not in fact match, but are light khaki, worn with a darkish brown tweed jacket and vest.)

My Fraser Ross (Glasgow) catalogue, likewise undated but illustrations clearly from c1930 based on the hairstyles, uses 'vest'

This illustrates an alternative style for Full or Evening Dress Wear- consisting of Doublet and Vest.

Here is the Argyll Jacket and Vest for boys. The Jacket and Vest may be Black or Green.

My two more recent Anderson catalogues, from c1950, use the words 'vest' and 'waistcoat' interchangeably

The Coatee
This is one of the best styles, especially for a young man, for Dances and other evening functions. It is usually made of black or green cloth and with silk facings. It is generally worn with a white evening shirt, wing collar and black tie, and with a to match waistcoat; Coatee and Vest, Item 61

One of my most recent catalogues is from The Tartan Gift Shop, Princes Street, Edinburgh, and appears to be c1960. It uses 'vest' exclusively

Man's full kilt jacket and vest in real Harris tweed in Lovat blue, Lovat green, or fawn with staghorn or leather buttons.

Prince Charlie style coatee and vest in fine black barathea, with celtic buttons

All of this makes me wonder why most British people nowadays use 'waistcoat' rather than 'vest'.

[StevieR]

It's always been a waistcoat to me. Over here a vest usually describes an undergarment worn when it's chilly. I wouldn't presume to correct an American cousin though. Usage of words is ever changing and many perceived 'Americanisms' are actually words or expressions that were once common on this side of the pond as well. My favourite American author, Bill Bryson, once commented that English, spoken by the English but a few hundred years ago, would have sounded more like Yosemite Sam to our ears! Have a look at his books 'Mother Tongue' and 'Made In America' if you get the chance. Both great reads that discuss our language and how it got where it is today.

[Phil]

The history of language is an interesting one and the evolution of words matches that of other aspects of life such as manners and customs.
Waistcoats first appeared in the reign of Charles II and would have been called vests and, in fact, still are among bespoke tailors. Hence the reason why OC’s various catalogues describe them as such.
Over the years, however, vest became the term to describe an undergarment for the upper body in Britain and was replaced by waistcoat to describe the garment OC referred to. Obviously this transition never occurred in the former colonies where the original usage was retained along with other, older customs, such as the use of cutlery.
Incidentally, vests are known as “semmits” in Scotland just a shirts are known as “sarks”. Just because language differs does not make it any less relevant but perhaps re-inforces that well known dictum – “two nations separated by a common language”. Perhaps language here could also be used interchangeably with “customs” and “mindset”

[OC Richard]

I wonder if in part it's a Scotland v England thing? Because most of those catalogues are using 'vest' from the 1920s up into the 1960s. Or has British usage changed recently?

It's sometimes said that a language never has two words that mean precisely the same thing, due to the fact that if a language does, the meaning of one of the words will eventually shift.

English had 'sky' and 'heaven' with the same meaning (one borrowed, one native) until 'heaven' shifted meaning.

Perhaps 'vest' has undergone this process recently in Britain.

Bill Bryson is great! I love reading about language. Have you read the resoundingly-named Lancelot Hogben? His book The Mother Tongue is a mind-blower, as it purposes to teach the reader all the Germanic and Romance languages simultaneously. Easier to learn them all at once, he claims, than one at a time! Perhaps if you have his IQ (genius).

[sailortats]

4:24 AM is pretty early mate. And as we are both in the same time zone I know that is actually when you posted it. Must be getting ready for the Queen Mary gig.

[OC Richard]

4:24 AM is pretty early mate. And as we are both in the same time zone I know that is actually when you posted it. Must be getting ready for the Queen Mary gig.

Yep the car is packed! Did it last night. Ready to head out soon to the ginormous boat. I hope the temperature isn't 90 like yesterday.

[WillowEstate]

I wonder if in part it's a Scotland v England thing? Because most of those catalogues are using 'vest' from the 1920s up into the 1960s. Or has British usage changed recently?

It's sometimes said that a language never has two words that mean precisely the same thing, due to the fact that if a language does, the meaning of one of the words will eventually shift.

English had 'sky' and 'heaven' with the same meaning (one borrowed, one native) until 'heaven' shifted meaning.

Perhaps 'vest' has undergone this process recently in Britain.

No, I don't think British usage has changed, in my nearly 69 years, a vest has always been a sleeveless undergarment or singlet (somewhat like Aussie Rules Footie players wear).

Remember that various people in the past, Napoleon and Hitler, to pick out two, have called the British "a nation of shopkeepers". The truth is, trading is what Britain does best and the lost Empire taught us how to trade with different nations. It may be that the canny traders in years past recognised that to trade with America, you need to use the American language and not the Queen's English. Hence the use of Americanisms?

I got caught out myself once, in a presentation to a group of our colleagues in California, I mentioned the expression "our purple patch" meaning in the British sense, a time of our greatest success. I didn't understand the titter of laughter around the audience - until an American friend explained that to them, a purple patch is something you stick on your arm as a cure for a social disease! Oh well, you live and learn!

[kilted scholar]

The Oxford English Dictionary, at least from 1911 to 1940, if not later, defined vest as a waistcoat and secondly as an undergarment.
I agree that in colloquial speech in the UK, certainly in my experience, vest has been understood to be a garment worn under a shirt (an undershirt as often described in the USA). However, as the catalogues mentioned by the OP indicate, and as the OED confirms, it has also been used for a waistcoat. So it is not entirely a matter of a difference between British and American English.

[mattie]

Well now, is it honour or honor? bonnet or hood? or is it petrol or gasoline? How about lorrie or truck? We Americans surely don,t speak the Queen,s English do we? I think not! I always thought the parish priest put on his vestments after his cassock! Best regards Mattie someone in Edinburgh asked my curly red headed daughter what part of Scotland she was from and she answered from across the "pond".

[OC Richard]

I mentioned the expression "our purple patch" meaning in the British sense, a time of our greatest success.

Yes that's one of the few hundred English sporting terms in the glossary I've been compiling!

It's a long list of terms that English football presenters regularly use which are incomprehensible to an American who doesn't happen to follow English football.

Many defy direct translation because the notion the word denotes doesn't exist in our sports, for example

English draw = US tie

English tie (as in "FA Cup tie") = no US equivalent; the closest is matchup

Purple patch! Sixes and sevens! Dummies and nutmegs! It goes on and on.