Enlarged Sett

[creagdhubh]

Greetings,

So, I am thinking of having my newest kilt made from tartan with an enlarged sett. The kilt will be in the Chattan tartan (heavyweight), done in the Wilson's of Bannockburn colour scheme from D.C. Dalgliesh. I realise that the Chattan tartan already has a fairly large sett, yet I am curious how far I can "push the envelope," so to speak, without creating problematic areas in regards to the pleating and overall aesthetic of the kilt. My good friend and fellow Macpherson cousin, Bruce Macpherson of London, has a very old kilt done in the Chattan tartan with a slightly larger sett than what is more commonly woven today, and I have always loved the way it looks. I have also always been rather fond of the larger setts featured throughout the detailed watercolour plates in Kenneth MacLeay's, The Highlanders of Scotland.

I know that some of you have unique experience in this matter, since I recall seeing various photos on the forum of kilts made with an enlarged sett (David Pope's beautiful, MacMillan kilt in Wilson's colours immediately comes to mind), not to mention the expertise of our resident tartan scholars and kiltmakers!

Here are my questions/concerns:

1) The Chattan tartan already has a fairly large sett, yet how far can I go with enlarging it further without causing any pleating issues?

2) Thinking of the Chattan tartan and a full 8-yards of it in the kilt, what style of pleating would be ideal with an enlarged sett?

3) I definitely want the tartan to come from D.C. Dalgliesh, therefore will I need to request a special weave/run due to the desired colour scheme and the enlarged sett?

Bruce Macpherson of London


Chattan sett in the modern (standard) colour scheme from D.C. Dalgliesh


Kindest regards,

[Tobus]

I'm obviously not a kiltmaker and won't pretend to have any solid answers for you, but based on the sett size I'm seeing in the photo of Mr. MacPherson there, I wouldn't think it would be an issue. From top to bottom of his kilt, I see about 3-1/2 sett repeats. That's about the same as my Colquhoun Reproduction tartan (also by DC Dalgliesh). So I'd say his sett size is about the same as mine, which was absolutely no problem for Barb T. when she built the kilt.

Just to be clear, are you wanting the sett size about the same as his, or even larger? Are you wanting it pleated to the stripe, sett, or what?

[creagdhubh]

I'm obviously not a kiltmaker and won't pretend to have any solid answers for you, but based on the sett size I'm seeing in the photo of Mr. MacPherson there, I wouldn't think it would be an issue. From top to bottom of his kilt, I see about 3-1/2 sett repeats. That's about the same as my Colquhoun Reproduction tartan (also by DC Dalgliesh). So I'd say his sett size is about the same as mine, which was absolutely no problem for Barb T. when she built the kilt.

Just to be clear, are you wanting the sett size about the same as his, or even larger? Are you wanting it pleated to the stripe, sett, or what?

Thanks, Tobus. Whereas I am fond of Bruce's kilt, I am wanting the sett to be considerably larger than what is shown in the photograph. As I stated previously, the sett of his tartan is slightly larger than what comes standard for the Chattan tartan from most mills. It's almost barely noticeable, but he has assured me, that it is indeed larger. I am most keen on knife pleating to the sett, but I am not opposed to pleating to the line (the first kilts I owned were all pleated in this fashion). I'm guessing this will largely depend on how large of a scale I can really go with enlarging the sett.

[creagdhubh]

Here's a photo of my cousin, Duncan Macpherson, showing an enlarged sett in the Macpherson hunting tartan. Even though this is an entirely different tartan, I think this gives a general idea/example of how large I really want to go with the Chattan sett.

[Tobus]

Ah, OK, that gives me a better idea of the desired sett size.

My MOD kilt (QOH - MacKenzie sett) has a ridiculously huge sett size. There are only 2 sett repeats from top to bottom, which puts it at around a 12" sett. Of course, it's pleated to the white stripe as most military kilts are (military box pleat style). But in looking at the way it's pleated, they are hitting every white stripe, which appears twice in the sett, evenly spaced. So it's still pleated to around a 6" repeat on each pleat. I would think you'd have to do the same with your proposed large sett, or you'd end up with way too much pleat overlap. Problem is, you don't have a regularly repeating stripe in your sett that would allow you to cut the sett in half like that. I'd be very curious to hear what the kiltmakers propose on something like this, as I'm sure it's been done plenty of times with large-sett tartans.

I don't suppose you have a photo of the back of Duncan MacPherson's kilt, do you, just to see what he did with the pleats on it?

[Downunder Kilt]

When I had my Chattan (ancient) made by John @ Keltoi he provided me with a couple of options for pleating to the stripe.
chattan to the stripe pleating.jpg
I ended up going with pleating to the sett. There is also the possibility of pleating to the block, which I think Kyle put a photo up of once where a pipe band was pleated as such. Cheers

[Nathan]

I can't help you out, but am watching the thread with great interest and am looking forward to the results.

[creagdhubh]

When I had my Chattan (ancient) made by John @ Keltoi he provided me with a couple of options for pleating to the stripe.
chattan to the stripe pleating.jpg
I ended up going with pleating to the sett. There is also the possibility of pleating to the block, which I think Kyle put a photo up of once where a pipe band was pleated as such. Cheers

Thanks, Mike. Aye, I prefer pleating to the sett with the Chattan tartan, since the sett is so attractive and gorgeous to begin with. I really don't wish to "hide" all of that on the reverse side of the kilt. I want people to be able to see the sett from all angles. Hopefully, this will all be possible with enlarging the sett as far as I can go without losing a good number of pleats.

Mike, could you perhaps post a few photos of you wearing your Chattan kilt? Especially a reverse shot, or two? I do recall seeing various photos in your thread regarding your Chattan kilt from Keltoi a while back. Thanks, mate!

Also, is this the photo you are talking about? A local pipe band wearing the Clan Chattan tartan in the modern colour scheme (pleated to the line) at the Clan Macpherson Gathering and Rally in Inverness-shire. See how small the overall sett size looks here? Not a fan.



Cheers,

[creagdhubh]

When I had my Chattan (ancient) made by John @ Keltoi he provided me with a couple of options for pleating to the stripe.
chattan to the stripe pleating.jpg
I ended up going with pleating to the sett. There is also the possibility of pleating to the block, which I think Kyle put a photo up of once where a pipe band was pleated as such. Cheers

Mike,

I was able to locate additional photos from the thread (now closed) you posted when your Chattan kilt arrived. I hope you don't mind that I post them again in this thread. Obviously, your kilt is made of the Chattan tartan from Lochcarron (Strome) in the ancient colour scheme. As we can all see, the sett is already quite large to begin with. I really like the way this tartan looks. I'm curious, is Lochcarron's Chattan tartan woven at a 10" sett, or relatively close?

Based upon what Calgacus and a few others have already mentioned in their detailed response; I'm thinking/hoping the Chattan tartan from D.C. Dalgliesh will come standard with a similar sized sett to Lochcarron's, which again, to my eye looks spot on in terms of what I'm after. I'm entirely sure I would want to risk going any larger than ~10-12" for the Chattan sett. Mike's kilt is pleated to the sett, of which I quite like and would naturally be my preference as well. I prefer to show off the sett all the way around the kilt. I wasn't always this way, since some of my older kilts were all pleated to the line. I have become very keen on sett pleating.

Any thoughts on issues that haven't already been discussed?

[creagdhubh]

Ah, OK, that gives me a better idea of the desired sett size.

My MOD kilt (QOH - MacKenzie sett) has a ridiculously huge sett size. There are only 2 sett repeats from top to bottom, which puts it at around a 12" sett. Of course, it's pleated to the white stripe as most military kilts are (military box pleat style). But in looking at the way it's pleated, they are hitting every white stripe, which appears twice in the sett, evenly spaced. So it's still pleated to around a 6" repeat on each pleat. I would think you'd have to do the same with your proposed large sett, or you'd end up with way too much pleat overlap. Problem is, you don't have a regularly repeating stripe in your sett that would allow you to cut the sett in half like that. I'd be very curious to hear what the kiltmakers propose on something like this, as I'm sure it's been done plenty of times with large-sett tartans.

I don't suppose you have a photo of the back of Duncan MacPherson's kilt, do you, just to see what he did with the pleats on it?

Thanks for your detailed response, Tobus. It is much appreciated, mate.

As requested, here are a few shots of Duncan's backside (no sarcasm intended) showing the pleating of his kilt. Also, on a wee bit of a sidenote (I am indeed the author of this thread, so...), I have added a few fairly recent photos of Duncan wearing his uniform of The Royal Company of Archers, of which he is a member (as is Cluny our Chief, and his son Jamie Brodie). Enjoy.








The Royal Company of Archers Photos