a little uncomfortable discussion about kilts for backpacking

[Alan H]

...and by backpacking, I mean putting 20-50 pounds on your back and heading out into the wilderness to sleep in a tent or under the stars for a night or two or three or ten.

Chafe. It's an issue. After 8 miles, it's a real issue and no joke. It's one thing to get a little chafed around town, it's something entirely different to be "out there" and have to deal with screaming red raw spots. I've learned the hard way that two packages of "Glide" go with me when I'm backpacking in a kilt.

The luminous Joan bought two pairs of polypropylene undies for Christmas. I wore them hiking this past trip and I now swear by these things. Chafe? Not a problem. If guys want to know what they are, I'll query the Lady and put up purchasing information. Truth...under a pair of pants they're too bluidy hot and sweaty. Under the kilt, hiking in the Sierra Nevada at 7,000 feet they were The Absolute Bomb. I might add that they were horrible in Scotland, it's way too humid for these things.

Hiking on Sierra Nevada trails, regimental... I don't do it. There are families and kids and nice people out there and sometimes it's windy. I'm not interested.

Chafe under the waistband: My backpacking kilt closes with velcro. I mean, it's the simplest system in the world, there are no buckles, straps or anything. Press the over-apron onto the under-apron, and it's done. I've never had an issue with chafe under the waistband, but I hike the kilt up and click the waistband buckle closed UNDER the waistband of the kilt. IN other words, you see the waistband of my kilt (in front at least, maybe not so much in the back) above the level of the backpacks waistband strap.

Weight and Swing and Pleats: Well, I don't wear a camouflage cotton/poly kilt in order to demonstrate the heft and swing of an 8 yard, 16 ounce wool kilt, on the trail. Heavy = bad when it comes to backpacking, eh? On the other hand, what about using superlight ripstop microfiber for a kilt? I dunno. Might work, and man-o-man is it light. It's expensive stuff, though. I'd cry if I ripped it. I'd like to have a LITTLE bit of weight in the thing so it hangs OK and doesn't fly up around my midriff at the slightest whiff of a breeze.

My backpacking kilt is about 5 yards of moderate cotton/poly from Joanne's fabric and it's pleated Kinguisse style, with about 9, 1-inch pleats on each side that meet in the middle of the back with a deep two-way box pleat.. If I were to change the kilt, knowing what I know, now, I'd stay with Kinguisse pleating but reduce the number of pleats to about 5-6 and make them slightly deeper. Why Kinguisse? Because the pleats-pointing-to-the-back "catch" stray branches and whatnot less than forward-facing pleats. At least, that's the theory. Why the fewer pleats? Because more pleats aren't necessary. They're for "looks" and that's not what I'm after, here. 5-6 pleats per side / 10-12 total instead of 18 total gives me plenty of leg room and cuts some weight. Why cheap cotton poly? Easy answer. Because it's cheap. I won't cry if I get sap on it, or as happened the first year I wore it, a mouse decided to chew it up at night and use some fabric to pad her next. I don't begrudge her the fabric, eh?

The other great thing about this kilt is that it was seriously easy to make. I knocked it out in about 6 hours on my mother-in-laws Singer that doesn't have zig-zag and that includes sewing down the outer pleat edges.

For the first time ever this past trip, I wore a pair of shorts to hike in . These were made by unzipping the bottom of my convertible pants, obtained on sale at REI. The material is seriously lightweight. OK, I know it's a kilt forum but I have to say that these things were pretty darned nice to hike in, too. I'll still probably stick with the kilt, though.

Do you backpack in a kilt? I'd like to hear your thoughts about chafe, material, weight and so on. If it's a 16 ounce wool kilt, then go take the discussion to the Traditional Kilt Forum, though. THNX.

[Nathan]

Regardless of how comfortable a garment is, chafing can occur when hiking over long distances with a heavy pack. This is even more of a problem for gents with bigger thighs that rub together when they walk. For those interested, I'll share an old soldiers' trick that many use for long forced marches with heavy backpacks - panty hose.

Nylon panty hose is light weight and not too hot, but it helps to keep the thighs separated and when nylon rubs on nylon it is far more lubricated than sweaty skin. It's counter intuitive for kilt wearers to contemplate wearing nylons but honestly, when it is your health and comfort at stake and you want to be operationally effective at the end of a 20km forced march, you use what works. The foot part actually also helps alleviate blisters.

You could cut them off at the knee and hem them if you didn't want anyone to see...

[Calgacus]

I'm not a contemporary kilt guy, but I hope I can contribute a little to this thread.

First, I think you mean 'reverse Kingussie' to be the best pleat configuration, and I agree for the reasons mentioned.

Secondly, it is my experience that a high waist with a minimum of buckles, straps, loops etc. is what is required for a comfortable hiking experience. I think it would be a good idea for someone to design a contemporary kilt specifically for hiking. Give it a high waist with a broad velcro fastening and a complete lack of buttons, clips, etc. Belt loops would be ok, but no built-in belt. Give it a pocket or pockets big enough to hold a typical hiking map (in the UK that's the OS Landranger series).

There is a temptation to give such a garment a plethora of tabs, buckles, loops, straps, pockets, hangers etc. that have 'utility'. This should be avoided, as these invariably end up in the waist area, which then cause discomfort under the pack waist belt. The secret is a 'clean' design with the waist higher than where a pack belt sits (which should be on the hips).

As for chafing, fortunately I'm slim enough that it simply doesn't occur!

[McElmurry]

Lately I have been wearing REI boxer/briefs. I have used sturdier versions in the winter to knock down the wind chill. I just purchased a pair of baseball sliding shorts for use this fall on some off trail hiking. I like the idea of a little more protection on the hips in the event I slip on a scree slope.

I also wear my kilt at the true waist, above the hip belt on my pack. I haven't yet done an overnighter kilted but I have done up to 11 hour day hikes including nearly 4000 feet of vertical. My pack weight has only been about 15 pounds so hip belt chafe has not really been tested. I wear a base layer shirt tucked into my kilt and I am hoping this will continue to protect my hips from my kilt as I increase pack weight.

Wind can certainly be an issue. I was just a few miles south of you Alan about the same time you were in Desolation Wilderness. As you can see from the photo the wind is trying to pull my hat off and the apron of my Sport Kilt is a bit out of place. Please note that I did not actually purchase the neckerchief to match the kaki stripe or the shirt to match the blue stripe. So no intentional matchy-matchy infraction here.

[ratspike]

@Alan H, I've had the same thought about lightweight fabrics. I actually bought some supplex a while back when I was talking with someone about kilts and ultralight backpacking. I haven't had a chance to give it a try yet but I think it might make a really great hiking kilt. I wouldn't expect too much kilty pleaty swingy action out of such a light fabric but I bet it'd be supremely comfortable, and that's priority #1.

I've made kilts for two other serious backpackers, and they both opted for camouflage nylon or poly cotton ripstop because it's light-ish and dries quick-ish. One of them weighed his kilt and it clocked in at 39.1oz with pockets, 31.5oz without. I think his hip was mid-50s, so IMO a reasonable weight for the size. I'm a huge fan of cotton and nylon/cotton ripstops for outdoorsy kilts. For extended time in cold and wet weather I'd stay away of course, but for a lot of activities, a lot of the time, in nice-to-not totally awful weather, it's great stuff. I have one headed over the pond for the Three Peaks Challenge in October. We talked at length about fabric and concerns about the weather, and I did put supplex on the table, but he eventually opted for an A-TACS camo pattern in poly/cotton ripstop.

Design-wise, I'm still kind of in the middle on pleat size, about 1.75" to 2", and about 3 inches deep. If I were making a kilt designed specifically for hiking and backpacking then I think your observation about bigger pleats and pleating style would be spot on. I've intentionally stayed away from reverse Kingussie because I don't want to chance running afoul of Utilikilts, but for a lightweight hiking kilt I don't think I'd be terribly worried.

On the subject of chafing down below, I never liked Body Glide and similar products. They work great, but feel a little...icky to me for some reason. I prefer compression shorts instead. Like you discovered, they can be pretty warm in hot weather under pants but there's enough air conditioning in a kilt to make it a non-issue for me.

[Lodrorigdzin]

I wear a 5 yard heavy weight wool kilt while hiking. It's high waisted and I walk with a load that's between 8 - 10 kg. The pack's hipbelt doesn't interfere with the kilt's buckles, but I don't wear a belt if I'm carrying my backpack.

No chafing, but I do wear very comfortable merino briefs.

[Offkiltercowboy]

I think Utilikilts has some lightweight running kilts. Not sure on their usefullness for hiking.

[Priest]

Panty hose can be a Soldier's best friend, especially on a 12 mile march with a 55 lbs. ruck.

Regardless of how comfortable a garment is, chafing can occur when hiking over long distances with a heavy pack. This is even more of a problem for gents with bigger thighs that rub together when they walk. For those interested, I'll share an old soldiers' trick that many use for long forced marches with heavy backpacks - panty hose.

Nylon panty hose is light weight and not too hot, but it helps to keep the thighs separated and when nylon rubs on nylon it is far more lubricated than sweaty skin. It's counter intuitive for kilt wearers to contemplate wearing nylons but honestly, when it is your health and comfort at stake and you want to be operationally effective at the end of a 20km forced march, you use what works. The foot part actually also helps alleviate blisters.

You could cut them off at the knee and hem them if you didn't want anyone to see...

[tpa]

Nylon panty hose is light weight and not too hot, but it helps to keep the thighs separated and when nylon rubs on nylon it is far more lubricated than sweaty skin. The foot part actually also helps alleviate blisters. You could cut them off at the knee and hem them if you didn't want anyone to see...

and still wear the bottom bit under socks!

[Tartan Hiker]

I bet some of you were wondering when I would toss in my $.02 worth. Well, here it is.

I make my own hiking kilts of poly/cotton. Box, Kingussie, and regular knife pleats are in my stable. All seem to work just fine.

I make my kilts high-waisted so the backpack belt rides on rather than above the kilt. Way more comfortable than shorts as the belt doesn't try to push the kilt down.

Underwear. In warm weather I just lube up with Body Glide and that's all. In cold weather I usually wear boxer-briefs in poly or cotton/poly blend. Work great.

If the weather is like it is right now...sub freezing early and late and maybe 40's F at mid-day, I'll switch over to a poly Stillwater. If the weather is much cooler, I use an old beater wool band kilt I grabbed on eBay and refitted with Velcro fasteners.