Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders Kilt circa 1948

**skenyon101** · 28th October 14, 06:14 PM

Hello. I’m trying to gather information about a kilt in my possession. The label inside shows it was built by T. Gordon & Sons, LTD in April 1948. I assume it is a regimental black watch tartan but look to you experts out there to help me verify its lineage. Why are there no leather straps/buckles? This kilt has two pins instead. I've attached a few pictures. Do you think the kilt was modified or were kilts also built for pins instead of straps? Any information is appreciated.

**figheadair** · 28th October 14, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by skenyon101

Hello. I’m trying to gather information about a kilt in my possession. The label inside shows it was built by T. Gordon & Sons, LTD in April 1948. I assume it is a regimental black watch tartan but look to you experts out there to help me verify its lineage. Why are there no leather straps/buckles? This kilt has two pins instead. I've attached a few pictures. Do you think the kilt was modified or were kilts also built for pins instead of straps? Any information is appreciated.

Old military kilts were fastened with pins of various styles. I'd not seen this style of fastening for A and SH kilts before but it's in keeping with that used by the Gordons. The Black Watch used 2 x 6" pins with a large black glass head. Placing these took a little practice

. At some time post-war all regimental kilts moved over to the standard strap and buckle on the right.

The material in your kilt is 22oz Cheviot cloth which was the standard ORs' weight at the time.

**Norbo** · 29th October 14, 02:07 AM

That's the same military box pleat Argyll kilt that I have the same age but my one has 3 straps

**skenyon101** · 29th October 14, 09:05 AM

Interesting! Since yours is the same age as mine (1948), I wonder if "to pin or not to pin" was an option at the time of manufacture. Thanks, also, for the box pleat verification.

**OC Richard** · 30th October 14, 05:42 AM

I didn't know the army was still pinning their kilts at that late a date.

We could ask Elsie Stuehmeyer, who worked at Thos Gordon & Son as a kiltmaker starting in 1949, if she remembers making strapless army kilts.

She did tell me that it was a pain making those boxpleated army kilts, and a pain sewing on that grass-green herringbone binding because it was so narrow.

She also said that the little two-prong buckles used for army kilts were a pain to buckle, which I've found out myself, having a MOD style Royal Stewart kilt with those buckles. The buckles are almost like the sort used on the back of a waistcoat, buckles designed to grip fabric rather than to be used with leather that has holes punched in it.

Now the RRS has gone over to civilian style buckles (though made in black) which are far easier to buckle.

About the tartan, I have read, and the vintage army kilts I've seen has borne out, that the ORs' kilts of the A&SH and BW used the same tartan. However Officers' and senior Noncommissioned Officers' kilts in the A&SH were made from a different tartan having the green a much lighter shade.

Anyhow for comparison the backside of an A&SH kilt and a BW kilt, the sort with the typical army buckles.

The Argylls kilt, pleated to the dark line in the green square (it's pleated to the same place as a Gordons kilt, that dark line being yellow in Gordon, but of course Gordons kilts are knifepleated)

The Black Watch kilt, pleated to the middle of the blue square

**skenyon101** · 29th October 14, 09:02 AM

Thank you for the detailed information! I was concerned about the pins (lol on placement practice) and happy to know it was not some modification. From the pic you can see mine are plain. It would be great to see an original pin with black glass head. Thanks again for the details.

**Tartan Tess** · 30th October 14, 09:36 AM

Elsie told me that they used to ship kilts without straps and buckles because it was cheaper.
It would still be "fabric" instead of "clothing" with out the closings.

**OC Richard** · 31st October 14, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Tartan Tess

Elsie told me that they used to ship kilts without straps and buckles because it was cheaper.
It would still be "fabric" instead of "clothing" with out the closings.

Reminds me of the Highland Outfitter I worked for back in the 1980s who imported their kilts and kilt skirts from Scotland without the fringe combed out. Leave the raw edge of fabric and US Customs classified it a "wool garment" but if the maker combed out the fringe before they shipped it from Scotland then US Customs classified it a "fringed garment" which had a higher duty (for reasons known only to US Customs).

**Stitchwiz** · 2nd November 14, 06:35 PM

As my grandad used to say: the powers that be will extract their pound of flesh any way that they can....

**skenyon101** · 2nd November 14, 07:36 PM

Thank you, Tartan Tess and OC Richard,
OK, I can understand why they might ship kilts without straps and buckles due to expense, but that puts the end-user at a disadvantage. Who would then put the straps and buckles in place? Were the straps and buckles and/or big pins easily accessible at the final shipping destination? It doesn't seem to add up. Were these strapless kilts being shipped to another assembly location? I'm really curious and find this all pretty interesting. Thanks for the information!