Kilt jackets

[Laird_M]

Just looking at a few sites as I'm looking for an Argyll jacket for myself but have a question for those in the know.

Why do some tailors measure the sleeve from shoulder to wrist and others from the nape to the wrist?

[Andrew Breecher]

Different tailors use different drafting systems, and these systems obtain the measures differently. You'll end up with the same result in the end - just be sure to know which measurement the tailor is looking for!

Some people think that measuring from the nape of the neck will give you a more accurate measurement, since it will never change. If you don't pick the right point of the shoulder to measure from, you'll get a bad measurement. Also, many other measurements are taken from the nape of the neck (armscye depth, back length, waist length, etc.) so one more measurement from the nape makes a lot of sense.

[Laird_M]

Thanks for that. Makes sense now.

[OC Richard]

Just looking at a few sites as I'm looking for an Argyll jacket for myself but have a question for those in the know.

Why do some tailors measure the sleeve from shoulder to wrist and others from the nape to the wrist?

And, some measure the inside of the sleeve from the armpit to the wrist.

I much prefer the shoulder-seam-to-wrist measurement.

There's potential confusion because some measure from the collar (where the lapel meets the jacket body) to the wrist, others from the centre back to the wrist, and oftentimes the wording isn't entirely clear.

The trouble with the armpit-to-wrist measurement is that two sleeves of the same shoulder-seam-to-wrist measurement can have different armpit-to-wrist measurements due to the shape of the arm hole (a longer or shorter oval).

Shoulder seam to wrist is both the most common, and the least subject to error, it seems to me.

[The Wizard of BC]

Any measuring system is something a tailor learns young and sticks with throughout their career.

It is much like having one kiltmaker ask for a waist circumference around the navel, and another somewhere else, even though both kilts are for the same guy and worn up, above the navel at the natural waist.

Actually some of these systems of measuring come from really old ways of doing things. Even in the time when many people were illiterate. I have a book in my shop that shows one way of measuring for a suit using a "story stick" and this is exactly the way I was last measured for my last suit. The tailor used a tape measure but did not look at or care what the numbers on the tape were.

Barb T. highlights one of these older methods of measuring in TAoK. The method does not require any arithmetic. It is all visual.

Every trade has its own language and way of doing things. In the days of guilds and apprentice/journeyman/master systems these are the things the apprentice spent years learning. Each Master (and Master simply meant that they were authorized to open their own school and take on apprentices) had their own way of doing things. They each passed down their way to the next generation.

Has anyone ever heard the old thing about kneeling on the floor to measure the length of a kilt? Some assume that because the kiltmaker measured from the natural waist down to the floor that the kilt should touch the floor when kneeling. I've actually had people come into my shop and tell me that this is the one and only correct way.
Actually this is an OTT- Old Tailors Trick -
If you make the kilt the exact length from the natural waist to the floor, and then install the top buckles 2" down from the top, the kilt hem will be 2" off the floor when worn, or exactly at the top of the kneecap.

So what is comes down to is what you learned and are comfortable with.

[Andrew Breecher]

Actually some of these systems of measuring come from really old ways of doing things. Even in the time when many people were illiterate. I have a book in my shop that shows one way of measuring for a suit using a "story stick" and this is exactly the way I was last measured for my last suit. The tailor used a tape measure but did not look at or care what the numbers on the tape were.

A similar old method is to measure with a long strip of paper. There are no numbers on the paper, but you make a nick in it with a pair of scissors at each measure. Since you don't really need numbers when you're drafting anyway - everything is based on the measures, or a third of a measure or a twelfth of a measure - you can just use the strip of paper for all of your measurements in the draft, and fold it between the marks to get the fractional measurements.

[Stitchwiz]

Has anyone ever heard the old thing about kneeling on the floor to measure the length of a kilt? Some assume that because the kiltmaker measured from the natural waist down to the floor that the kilt should touch the floor when kneeling. I've actually had people come into my shop and tell me that this is the one and only correct way.
Actually this is an OTT- Old Tailors Trick -
If you make the kilt the exact length from the natural waist to the floor, and then install the top buckles 2" down from the top, the kilt hem will be 2" off the floor when worn, or exactly at the top of the kneecap.

So what is comes down to is what you learned and are comfortable with.

Emboldening added

Boy did I have a visual flashback reading this post, Steve!

Now I'm going to date myself with this one...I went to a school where we were not allowed to wear pants. And all skirts had to be no higher than 4" above the knee. We had to kneel on the floor and the length was measured from the floor to the hem. Every teacher carried a 6" ruler.

There was one girl who had her skirts all meticulously hemmed to the correct length. But then when she put them on, she rolled the waistband to get them shorter, even her kilt. I think of her when I see the ladies skirts on Scottish websites. She was tall and slim, had the longest legs, always wore high heels, and looked great with her 'mini' skirts. She got away with this for 2 years - I never heard of her being demerited for having her skirt too short. Whenever she felt she was being observed by teachers, all she had to do was unroll her skirt and she was compliant.

I still use the kneeling method for pinning hems for my granddaughters - little ones have a hard time standing still, kneeling is easier for them - and grandma hurries.

[Laird_M]

The trouble with the armpit-to-wrist measurement is that two sleeves of the same shoulder-seam-to-wrist measurement can have different armpit-to-wrist measurements due to the shape of the arm hole (a longer or shorter oval).

Shoulder seam to wrist is both the most common, and the least subject to error, it seems to me.

And for those of us who used to draw a 180lb long bow, our arm s aren't necessarily the same length either. The actor Robert Hardy ( Master of the Worshipful Company of Bowyers of the City of London from 1988 to 1990) has arms that are noticeable different lengths apparently.