civilian "Argyll"jackets

[David Dubh]

Hi all
I wanted to ask questions about kilt jackets in the " argyll" type. The reason that I put in the quotation marks is because I dont want discussion on the different cuff styles but rather on the use for these jackets.
1) can/should a tweed jacket be worn for morning dress through to evening wear (non black tie) with or without a waistcoat?
2) I have a charcoal tweed jacket and am considering buying a waistcoat to go with it. I'm concerned that getting one that is exact match is possible, so could I get a complementary one in blue or green sort of idea?
3) should it be tweed or could it be baretha in a complementary colour?
Pictures if you have them would be appreciated.
Slainte David

[OC Richard]

Jock Scot and others will give the modern Scottish Highland "take" on these things, but I will say that, as can be seen in vintage late 19th century photographs, black jackets with rounded cutaway bottoms were worn interchangeably with other black jackets in the equivalent of 20th century "evening dress", in grey and brown jackets of the same cut were worn in the equivalent of 20th century "day dress".

From the mid 19th century up into the 20th century it was common to wear red, yellow, buff, and tartan waistcoats with grey or brown tweed "day" jackets.

[The Wizard of BC]

As OC Richard said, there was a time that a gentleman would not be seen without his jacket on. This period ended about 10 years after the end of WWII. This is why vests designed to be worn with a jacket have a satin back. It is plainly obvious that the back of the vest is not to be seen.

Earlier a man may own one or possibly two jackets. (Suits as we know them today, with all three pieces of the same cloth, are a fairly recent development) In the period of the 1860's through the First World War men would have many different vests made from many different fabrics. Some fabrics were very fancy by todays standards. It was not uncommon to see brocade and wild colors.

If you carry that thinking up to today there is no reason that you cannot wear a contrasting vest with your jacket.

Today the way men dress is much more relaxed with far fewer 'rules'. In some places in N. America it is rare that a man has need for a jacket at all unless he works in an office environment. Men today do not 'dress for dinner' by changing into more formal clothes. Heck, very few men today even own formal clothes.

It is rare that a man would need a jacket except for those few times a year when dressing up would be required.

So in much of N. America a good dark Tweed would be all that would be needed for most occasions. I often continue in the same jacket I wore during the day for a dinner out or to a show. And I am the most formally dress in attendance.

Now most kilties like to peacock up a bit. I like contrasting vests. I think they add a little something extra.

I have a nice burgundy one along with a dove gray, dark mustard, and matching ones.

I took these photos one day in the shop to show people that a simple and inexpensive addition to their wardrobe could make a big change in the look.

Just a bit of fun trying something that you don't usually see on the 'cookie cutter' web.







I personally think that either of these outfits would work very well almost anywhere, anytime that I want to look dressed up without being formal or stuffy.

And a different colored jacket but the same civilian style worn without a vest and it still looks pretty good for an evening out.



I would challange almost anyone to say that this charcoal tweed civilian jacket with contrasting vest does not look good, and would be acceptable for 99% of the time.

[Downunder Kilt]

Steve. I think you sre spot on with your post. I have a number of tweed kilt jackets. lovat green, forrest green, poacher, grey and a brown check. Altough I have matching waistcoats for most of them, I also have a number of contrasting coloured waistcoats, burgundy, yellow/corn, red, light grey and mustard. I tend to wear a contrasting one in preference to a matching one. Cheers.

[MacGumerait]

Steve. I think you sre spot on with your post. I have a number of tweed kilt jackets. lovat green, forrest green, poacher, grey and a brown check. Altough I have matching waistcoats for most of them, I also have a number of contrasting coloured waistcoats, burgundy, yellow/corn, red, light grey and mustard. I tend to wear a contrasting one in preference to a matching one. Cheers.

Well done Mike .

Now that's how it's done !

[Spartan Tartan]

There are several fine examples here. Fantastic to all! I, however, do not have many pictures of myself. Not that I wouldn't like to have a few, but I never think to get a picture when until afterward. Nevertheless... I think you have some wonderful examples and answers to your questions.

Keep in mind, variation in texture and color are a good thing. I have only 1 charcoal tweed jacket and I have added to my wardrobe considerably by adding a couple DIFFERENT colored waistcoats. Best of luck shopping around and finding something you like. A few of my waistcoats have come in useful in my saxon attire as well. Embrace the different textures!

[imrichmond]

As OC Richard said, there was a time that a gentleman would not be seen without his jacket on. This period ended about 10 years after the end of WWII.

Just as an aside, when I was teaching at Canada's Royal Military College (Kingston) in the early 1970s, a jacket was mandatory in the officers' mess after 6 pm. This was normal in the Canadian military at that time. As one commandant put it, "A gentleman does not remove his jacket after 6 in the evening." I recall one hapless young lieutenant who, while engaged in an absorbing conversation on a particularly warm summer evening, clearly forgot where he was and absent-mindedly removed his jacket and folded it over his arm. He immediately incurred the wrath of the commandant, who bellowed from the far end of the mess, "Put your jacket on!" The red-faced and flustered lieutenant hurriedly complied.

[mbuff]

I especially like the burgundy waistcoat. Very nice contrast.

[CMcG]

...
1) can/should a tweed jacket be worn for morning dress through to evening wear (non black tie) with or without a waistcoat?
...

Traditionally speaking, a tweed kilt jacket can get you through most situations, day or night, except for formalwear. It is the equivalent of a business suit, lounge suit, and sports coat (or blazer) all rolled into one. Morning dress, however, is formal daywear and calls for a black barathea silver button Argyll.

...
2) I have a charcoal tweed jacket and am considering buying a waistcoat to go with it. I'm concerned that getting one that is exact match is possible, so could I get a complementary one in blue or green sort of idea?
...

Getting an exact match would be next to impossible, so a complementary—or contrasting— colour would work better.

...
3) should it be tweed or could it be baretha in a complementary colour?
...

For me, tweed with tweed is ideal, but other fabrics could work too, including barathea. I might avoid things with an incongruous texture, like smooth shiny silk or satin.

FYI, my waistcoat doesn't match my kilt jacket either, but they are both made of tweed:

[Nathan]

1) can/should a tweed jacket be worn for morning dress through to evening wear (non black tie) with or without a waistcoat?

Although a tweed can be worn in the morning or in the evening, it can be worn as neither morning dress nor evening wear. As Colin mentioned, both morning dress and evening wear are formal so a tweed as a suit equivalent isn't up to snuff.

Morning Dress


The equivalent to this level of dress is the black barathea silver buttoned Argyll.

Evening wear (black tie)


Evening wear (white tie)



The good news is that you can wear the tweed for almost any other occasion!

2) I have a charcoal tweed jacket and am considering buying a waistcoat to go with it. I'm concerned that getting one that is exact match is possible, so could I get a complementary one in blue or green sort of idea?

As mentioned by others, a contrasting waistcoat or no waistcoat is preferable to one that almost matches. You won't find a matching one.

3) should it be tweed or could it be baretha in a complementary colour?

Either will work nicely but tweed is ideal.

Pictures if you have them would be appreciated.
Slainte David

For more details about the different levels of dress consult this article that CMcG and I wrote:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...xamples-85511/