Glengarry dicing?

[416 Rigby]

Gents, what is the history, purpose, protocol for dicing on a Glengarry? I'll need to get one in the near future, and want to be correct. Plain or diced? Red or black tourrie?

Thanks

[MacGumerait]

Here is an older thread that may be of some help .

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...ng-mean-30801/

Cheers , Mike

[figheadair]

This was dicussed last year - see here.

As with all things tartan and Highland Dress, there is no such thing as 'correct' unless you are wearing something as part of a uniform; military, pipeband etc., so wear what you like not what someone tells you is 'right'.

Dice or no - your choice, ditto tourie (one 'r') colour.

[416 Rigby]

Interesting reading, thank you. I'll wear it while piping, and figured I'd opt for plain black.

[Jock Scot]

This was dicussed last year - see here.

As with all things tartan and Highland Dress, there is no such thing as 'correct' unless you are wearing something as part of a uniform; military, pipeband etc., so wear what you like not what someone tells you is 'right'.

Dice or no - your choice, ditto tourie (one 'r') colour.

Quite right Peter, although these vague, elusive and wholly erroneous civilian "dicing rules" still persist up here for some. Why, I cannot say. Only this morning whilst doing a spot of shopping I was gently reprimanded by a local passerby for wearing my diced bonnet. On asking why, I was told in good humour, that the dicing showed that I worked( a slight variation on the theme methinks) for the Crown. My reply was, that I used to spend quite a lot of time working for the Crown, so what was the problem? After we had both stopped laughing we parted company and went on our way.

[jf42]

It's fair to say that from the time the Glengarry bonnet with pleated crown evolved as as an item of uniform in the 1840s, pipers have worn plain blue bonnets (At that time, of course, dicing was, predominantly, an element of military decoration although civilians are shown sporting diced bonnets from the 1780s onwards).

It's a matter of taste perhaps but with the drones (and ribbons) and a long feather or two, dicing on the bonnet might have been considered as gilding the lily somewhat. Admittedly, in the post-war British Army the Royal Scots and the King's Own Scottish Borderers wore a diced Glengarry bonnet with blackcock feathers in parade dress- No. 1 and No. 2, but not their pipers! They wore plain bonnets, conforming with tradition.

Moreover those two regiments wore tartan trews not the kilt. Add a kilt, a hairy white sporran, red and white hose tops and spats, and then a diced Glengarry bonnet with long feathers, might arguably be considered just one bit of a Highland bling too far. So, Long feathers, plain glengarry, pipes & kilt. Dignified Long feathers, diced glengarry, rifle and trews. etc. Smart. Both seem a proportionate level of decoration.

Look at the Royal Regiment of Scotland in full fig, especially a squad of Jocks of below average height- although to be honest, in that case I think it's the feathers that were a step too far, not the dicing. It looks to me like a litre in a pint pot. It's a question of cleanness of line. But that's a matter of opinion. I offer it for gentle debate.


What, did somebody say "Feather bonnets"?

[Pleater]

There does seem to be a tendency to 'Romanticise' knitted things - all that guff about the Arran patterns, fisherman's ganseys and the Shetland lace patterns - from what can be learned at this distance in time, they were simply legends devised for export, probably enhanced by individual collectors to increase the numbers of items ordered from them.

I strongly suspect that the allegiance to a cause being indicated by the colour of dicing on your bonnet is equally illusory.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[OC Richard]

what is the history, purpose, protocol for dicing on a Glengarry?

About history, dicing on Scottish headdress existed well before the Glengarry itself did.

About purpose, it's merely decorative (in other words it doesn't do anything).

About protocol, civilians can wear whatever they want, in the military it was like this:

Highland regiments:

Black Watch, Cameron Highlanders: no dicing, plain dark blue Glengarries.

Gordon Highlanders, Seaforth Highlanders: red/white/green dicing on Glengarries.

Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders: red/white dicing on Glengarries.

Pipers of Highland regiments, Lowland regiments, and Guards: no dicing on Glengarries.

The presence or absence of Glengarry dicing did not affect feather bonnets, all of which had dicing (save for the Van Dyke band of the RSDG).

In The Highlanders Of Scotland it can be seen that plain Glengarries were quite popular amongst civilians in the mid-19th century. (25 men are wearing plain Glengarries, 22 plain Balmorals, 3 diced Balmorals. There are no diced Glegarries.)

A typical Victorian civilian wearing a plain Glengarry; note that the Glengarry lacks rosette and badge, that the man is not wearing flashes or kit pin, and that he is wearing ankle boots, all confirming the situation shown in The Highlanders Of Scotland



In the Seaforth Highlanders: pipers plain, non-pipers diced



In the Black Watch, plain for all

[jf42]

OC. In a nutshell. Bravo! Could that possibly be printed on a tee-shirt or mounted on a banner and towed behind a small plane?

Even within that post-1881 dispensation there was inconsistency. The Seaforths wore plain Glengarries until the mid-1880s and, not to forget the Highland Light Infantry, situation between the old 71st and 74th until 1913 was- well, that's another story.

[Father Bill]

Richard, we can always count on you for the history, backed up with authentic photos. You do us a great service and often!