Dipping flags at ceremonies

[duke_19_62]

On the US Memorial Day this year with the Scottish American Military Society (SAMS), I served as part of a Color Guard at several wreath layings at the various memorials around Washington, DC. We used the US Flag, the Saltire, and the flags of each of the US Armed Forces: US Army, USMC, US Navy, USAF and US Coast Guard. During the playing of Taps all the flags but the US Flag were dipped in salute. After the first instance, I started a discussion. I believe, as a National Color, the Saltire also should not have been dipped. The argument given is we (SAMS), are an American organization made up of American Veterans in the USA, only the US Flag is dipped. I still feel that, being a National Flag (not looking to start a political discussion about independence, etc), the same argument applies to the Saltire. I look forward to your input.

[Father Bill]

I too will be interested in the responses from an American point of view. I think you will find that custom varies among nations though, so please understand that's what good for the goose is not necessarily good for the duck.

[cessna152towser]

Would be very interested to hear others views on this, from both North America and Europe.
My perception as a Scot is that the Saltire is my National Flag and my nationality is Scottish.
I would never fly the Union Jack here in Scotland though I am proud to raise it on the flagpole of the aviation museum across the border in the north of England where I do some volunteering, as it represents in my view, not a national flag, but a shared history, our shared Monarch and a shared interest in the defence of the islands which we share with our neighbours. I dislike intensely seeing my country being referred to as "united kingdom" as this is simply a term which covers mutual co-operation between neighbouring nations, same as "european union".
Yet I've noticed on fora that members living in England often choose to identify their location as "uk" rather than "England", also when I cross the border into England I am immediately made aware of entering a different country by the array of Union Jacks flying just inside the English Border in much the same way as you see them when you cross from Eire into Northern Ireland. I would have expected to see the St. George flag in England much more, just as one sees plenty of Saltires in Scotland, yet the St. George flag seems relatively rare in England compared to Union Jacks. By the way there is a little St. George flag on the flagpole of the church on my model railway here in Scotland, flown out of respect to the friend from whom I inherited the model church and who originallly chose this flag for his own reasons.

[Jock Scot]

Unlike Alex, I am more than happy with the Union flag. To be clear here I am not altogether happy to be represented by the European Union flag though.

[Dileasgubas]

From the Canadian government protocol site: "Dipping a carried flag means lowering it from a vertical position to one which is, variously 45 degrees from the horizontal, or, even further, touching the ground.
The national flag, when carried, is never dipped or lowered to the ground."

I could find no mention about dipping other national flags but my sense is that national flags do not get dipped under any circumstances.

[MacEanruig]

I suspect that you could apply the same etiquette outlined within the UK Flag Institute's "Flying Flags in the United Kingdom" on page five to the Scottish Saltire. Although it does not specifically mention dipping or lowering at a memorial, you would be correct I believe in lowering the flag as described for salutes.

"When passing the person taking the salute the flag should be lowered
so that the staff is horizontal. This can be done by simply lowering the staff
straight ahead, or by lowering the staff towards the person taking the salute
and then swinging it round to straight ahead. All the movements should be
slow and dignified. After the salute, the flag should be raised again."

It appears that British flag etiquette is almost identical in respect to the US flag etiquette procedures.

[ctbuchanan]

The United States Code covers all flag etiquette for the US Flag.

http://www.legion.org/flag/code

It specifies that during peacetime the flags of all nations should be equal to but never superior to the US Flag in place or position, and treated the same.

One sections says: No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

Notice that the remarks exclude flags of other nations which means that they should not be dipped. The Saltire is the national flag of Scotland and therefore should be held at an equal height to the US flag at all times.

[Peter Crowe]

The Saltire Cross of St Andrew (also the St. George's Cross, and the St. Patrick's Saltire Cross) are as I understand it under UK Flag protocol only flown in a secondary position when the Union Flag/Jack is also being flown, otherwise they may be properly flown in place of the Union Flag. I am unclear on the status of the Green and White Dragon Flag of Wales in this regard, as it was only formally adopted in the earlier 20th century.

For Example, British Embassies around the world fly the St. Andrew's Cross on November 30th in place of the Union Flag.

The rules around UK Flags on land are primarily conventions established by custom, however at sea these carry the full force of law and are enforced by the Admiralty (The Ministry of Defence (Navy) since 1964). There are very clear rules about what vessels may fly, when and from where, with the Red Ensign being the proper ensign for merchant vessels and private boats, the White Ensign for commissioned warships of the Royal Navy, and the Blue Ensign on Merchant Ships and private small craft where the owner/skipper holds an Admiralty Warrant to do so, in the case of MN vessels the Master must hold the rank of Commander RNR. Other government vessels both civil and military fly a defaced Blue Ensign with the emblem proper to the department/branch on the fly. All ensigns have the Union Flag in the canton.

Recently there has been a move to re-establish the maritime use of the Scottish Red Ensign with a darker blue St. Andrews cross in the canton, but this is unofficial, probably illegal, although this historic Ensign was that in use by the Royal Scots Navy in the XVII century and up to 1707. There is currently a petition asking the Scottish Parliament to seek Admiralty permission for small craft to be permitted to use this ensign within UK waters. Incidentally up until the mid-19th century the Red Ensign was the Ensign of the Senior Squadron of the Royal Navy as well as the Merchant Ensign.

The flags on my avatar is the 'House Flag' of the former Glen Line Ltd. (Glen and Shire Lines) of London, a subsidiary company of Alfred Holt's Blue Funnel Line (later it all came under the umbrella of Ocean Fleets Ltd) of Liverpool with which my father spent his career at sea as a Master Mariner.

[cessna152towser]

Our Council Offices fly the Saltire on most days of the year, though on the Queen's Birthday or other Royal Event is replaced by the Union Jack.
There is also the Armed Forces Day flag which has been flying from Council Headquarters in place of the Saltire during the week leading up to Armed Forces Day on Saturday 27th June.

[416 Rigby]

To clarify previous comments about ceremonies here in the USA, the US national ensign is never dipped.