What Collar/Shirt with Sherrifmuir and/or Ruche Cravat?

[KiltedSergeant]

I am considering purchasing a Sherrifmuir with 5-button matching waistcoat. I like the look, and can also wear it with tartan 5-button waitscoats I own. I am unsure what shirt/collar works with a Sherrifmuir. Also, one cravat I would like to use with it is a ruche. What collar is a ruche worn with? It looks like it might not work with a wingtip collar usually worn with a PC. Any advice/info would be appreciated!

[OC Richard]

A quick search found this, from an earlier X Marks thread, put together by Matt Newsome to show several Sheriffmuir looks:



In the early years of the 20th century several new Evening Dress jacket styles appeared, first the Prince Charlie Coatee, then the Montrose Doublet and Kenmore Doublet. I have early catalogues which speak of the Prince Charlie Coatee as being a new thing, and document the appearance of the Montrose and Kenmore. I'll have to check and see if I can get an idea of when the Sheriffmuir appeared. (Edit: looked over a few catalogues from c1930 through c1955 and there are no Sheriffmuirs, only Standard Doublets, Prince Charlie Coatees, Montrose "coats", and Kenmore/Morar Doublets.)

In any case it's a 20th century invention (though perhaps "inspired" by some 19th century jackets) so there's no "tradition" per se about what to wear with it, other than to say that lace jabots were very popular in the first half of the 20th century, and you see lace jabots worn with Prince Charlie Coatees, Montrose Doublets, and Kenmore Doublets. So I would suspect the same with the Sheriffmuir.

Ruche ties AFAIK are a quite recent invention, appearing at the end of the 20th century, and were therefore not part of the original intended look of any of our Evening Dress styles.

But that's just history stuff. People wear what they want.

[Taskr]

Ruche will work with a wingtip, if Google images are to be taken as advice

[Graeme H]

Always a wing collar with a rouche, or any cravat worn over the collar and not underneath - in the case of a self-tie rouche the pleating is a little bulky to sit under a turndown collar you see! Most rouches these days are clip on which is a shame as the adjustable band is viewable on the back of the collar. I would urge you to get a proper double-ended one for this reason, and also because (as with a bow tie) they always look that much nicer they are tied as a half-Windsor, fyi.

[KiltedSergeant]

OC Richard- The history is interesting. As for the Jabot, as it is generally considered (correct me if I'm wrong here) "white tie" I doubt that I'll ever wear one. I've been to many black tie events in my PC or Argyll; I've never been to a white tie event, nor ever invited to one, and doubt that I ever will be. I will wear it with a ruche cravat, or possibly bow tie, but I don't think it looks good with the bow tie. I think it would look decent with a standard neck tie, but the jacket itself, I believe, looks too formal for that. The photos were helpful. I had found some on line, but they were not clear enough to see the shirt. I blew yours up to 200% and, though blurry, I could learn a bit more. Thanks.

Taskr- Thanks. That's the conclusion I've come to.

Graeme H- Thanks as well for the good advice.

[Taskr]

With my Sheriffmuir, I wear a stock tie and wing-tip shirt. It took some practice to get it just right; it gets complimented

[RichardtheLarge]

A quick search found this, from an earlier X Marks thread, put together by Matt Newsome to show several Sheriffmuir looks:



In the early years of the 20th century several new Evening Dress jacket styles appeared, first the Prince Charlie Coatee, then the Montrose Doublet and Kenmore Doublet. I have early catalogues which speak of the Prince Charlie Coatee as being a new thing, and document the appearance of the Montrose and Kenmore. I'll have to check and see if I can get an idea of when the Sheriffmuir appeared. (Edit: looked over a few catalogues from c1930 through c1955 and there are no Sheriffmuirs, only Standard Doublets, Prince Charlie Coatees, Montrose "coats", and Kenmore/Morar Doublets.)

In any case it's a 20th century invention (though perhaps "inspired" by some 19th century jackets) so there's no "tradition" per se about what to wear with it, other than to say that lace jabots were very popular in the first half of the 20th century, and you see lace jabots worn with Prince Charlie Coatees, Montrose Doublets, and Kenmore Doublets. So I would suspect the same with the Sheriffmuir.

Ruche ties AFAIK are a quite recent invention, appearing at the end of the 20th century, and were therefore not part of the original intended look of any of our Evening Dress styles.

But that's just history stuff. People wear what they want.

What is your opinion of his tweed formal doublet? This always struck me as a bit of a bugbear, but maybe I’m just unfamiliar with the customary use of fabrics. I assumed that a formal doublet wanted to be velvet or barathea/worsted wool, whereas tweed would be for a daywear coat/jacket/cloak/vest. I’m familiar with tweed kilts in daywear, but I think they might look a bit off in a formal setting.

[Hirsty]

Personally I feel tartan, barathea or velvet in any reasonable colours is the way to go formally for jackets, doublets and coatees. Waistcoats can be in these materials and also white marcella.