Bow tie with 5 button waistcoat?

[FossilHunter]

I have seen it recommended that black argyle jackets pressed into service as black tie outfits are best worn with a three button waistcoat, à la Prince Charlie jackets.

Of course with black it is easy enough to find a matching three button waistcoat but it seems like one would have a lot of trouble finding one for a green or navy barathea argyle.

Could the matching five button waistcoat that the jacket presumably came with be used without raising eyebrows? Or is a five button waistcoat just too high for a bow tie?

[The Wizard of BC]

It is common and accepted advice to wear the best you have.

If what you have is a 5 button vest then wear the 5 button vest with tux shirt and Black bow tie.

Don't sweat the small stuff. What you may ask is small stuff? The answer is that if it can't kill you it is small stuff.

Do the best you can with what you've got. Walk proud and be respectful of the event and your host.

[Jock Scot]

Steve is right, to a point, if a five button waistcoat is all you have, then go with it. The other choice is not wear a waistcoat at all and then you will not tread on any toes. BUT, a black three button waistcoat with silver buttons would be the perfect choice. It never hurts to know what is really required even if we don't do it!

[The Wizard of BC]

Another option is to visit your local tuxedo rental place and rent up a cummerbund. This is, and would be, a perfectly acceptable alternative to purchasing a vest you may only wear once or twice.

Oh, and the pleats on a cummerbund point up.

[Father Bill]

Oh, and the pleats on a cummerbund point up.

That's so you can catch the crumbs for a snack later.

Not sure that I much care for a cummerbund with a kilt, but....

[FossilHunter]

Steve is right, to a point, if a five button waistcoat is all you have, then go with it. The other choice is not wear a waistcoat at all and then you will not tread on any toes. BUT, a black three button waistcoat with silver buttons would be the perfect choice. It never hurts to know what is really required even if we don't do it!

Even if it’s a bottle green barathea argyle?

[Jock Scot]

Even if it’s a bottle green barathea argyle?

Actually a black waistcoat with a green Argyll would look rather sharp. In truth though, I was assuming a black barathea Argyll.

[FossilHunter]

Actually a black waistcoat with a green Argyll would look rather sharp. In truth though, I was assuming a black barathea Argyll.

I was wondering mostly because I wasn’t sure what someone with a bottle green or navy jacket would do. Black is easy to match but getting colors to match between manufacturers could be tough and not as many sellers have green or navy PCs (and thus, I assume, their corresponding waistcoats).

As you say though, a dirk belt would work too.

[OC Richard]

black Argyll jackets pressed into service as black tie outfits...

This is the first thing I noticed. Remember that Prince Charlie coatees are a 20th century invention, and only in the second half of the 20th century became regarded by many as the end-all and be-all of Evening Dress jackets.


In Victorian times formal jackets were either of the Doublet or the Argyll cut, so I would regard a black Argyll not as an outsider pressed into service, but rather a much older and more traditional style than the Prince Charlie coatee.

About waistcoats, yes the Prince Charlie seems to have used the low-cut waistcoat from the beginning.

But the 19th century high-buttoning waistcoats long worn with the already-existing Doublets and Argylls began getting lower towards the end of the 19th century and into the early 20th.

Here's a Doublet worn with a mid-height waistcoat



Here's a black Argyll with high-buttoning waistcoat worn with Evening Dress, black bow tie, plaid, Evening Dress sporran, tartan hose, buckled shoes.



Here you can see a variety of waistcoat heights, from the high-buttoning one worn by the piper (with a Doublet) and a low-buttoning one by the centre dancer (with an Argyll)



which should challenge our assumptions about which sort of waistcoats ought to be worn with which sort of jackets.